Episode 131: The Red-Haired Giants of Lovelock Cave and Other Ancient Mysteries

Welcome, all you explorers of the unexplained and seekers of ancient enigmas. To another episode of the Walking the Shadowlands podcast. As explorers, we often find ourselves drawn to the uncharted territories of history. Where myths, legends, and the whispers of our ancestors intersect. My guest brings forth a narrative shrouded in history. Specifically centered around Lovelock Cave and the enigmatic Redhead Giants.

And one that stretches across centuries of Native American lore and unravels the story that finds its root, in the oral tradition of the Northern Paiute people. In our conversation, we’ll navigate the corridors of time. Looking into the events of 1911 when skeletal remains were discovered in the cave.

And the subsequent disappearance of these artifacts. We’ll explore the complexities surrounding Native American tribes, the NAGPRO law, and the lingering questions about the giants that once walked the earth. What happened to the skeletal remains? Why do Native American tribes maintain a mysterious relationship with these giants?

Join us as we unravel the layers of this enigma. Touching upon legends, and archaeological mysteries. And the potential connections between ancient civilizations and extraterrestrial beings. Without further ado, are you willing to walk with me into this part of the Shadowlands and see what awaits us there? So settle in and let’s begin.

My guest today has had a lifetime’s interest in ancient mysteries, developed from watching programs such as ‘In Search Of’ with the late, great, Leonard Nimoy. And reading books that ignited his passions as a young lad. And caused him to seek these mysteries out. He then spent time exploring archaeological sites in Mexico. During his research and study came across accounts of giant skeletal finds in North America.

Inspired by researchers such as Jim Vieira, he began his research on these giants through newspaper archives going back to the early 1900s. Very quickly he noticed a theme with all of these discoveries involving authorities and the confiscation of the remains. Which then quickly disappeared. Never to be seen again.

Floyd has a Bachelor of Science degree in Human Development and holds certifications in hypnotherapy and neurolinguistic psychology. His investigations into sacred sites and out-of-place artifacts have led him across the globe. Floyd currently lives in Washington state. I would like to welcome my guest, Floyd Wills.

Floyd Wills.

Marianne: Floyd, welcome to our Walking the Shadowlands podcast. It’s really nice to have you here with us.

Floyd: Thank you very much, Marianne, for having me on and I appreciate you and also your listeners for tuning in. I think we’re going to have a very interesting and fun conversation.

You’ve written a book. Which is a really interesting book called

The Red-Haired Giants of Lovelock Cave and Other Ancient Mysteries. It’s a long title.

It is, but it’s a very interesting, book. Perhaps we could start with what got you interested in mysteries first off, and then in this particular area of interest?

Yes, that’s a great question. It started when I was a young boy. I’ve always had a very inquisitive mind, and growing up in the 1980s, there was a television program on that some of your listeners may or may not remember. It’s called In Search Of, and it was hosted by the late, great Leonard Nimoy. Oh he was great! Of Star Trek fame. Yes. And I love that series. It talked about, the mysteries of the pyramids and UFOs and Bigfoot and ancient civilizations and just all these really interesting topics to me. And that’s what really got me started.

And that led me to going to my school library and trying to find books on those types of subjects. And I would read up on them And that interest just carried over into adulthood and when I had the ability to travel overseas, I would always make it a point to go to some sacred site or some very interesting or mysterious place. And I’ve just been fascinated with this subject. It led me into the works of Graham Hancock The Fingerprints of the Gods, I read that, yes, in the 1990s, and several of his other books. Another book, Underworld, that he wrote about the ancient civilizations that are underneath the oceans. And that just fascinated me. So started from a very young age with, in search of… Oh, and also when I was in high school, a friend gave me a copy of Eric von Daniken’s book, Fingerprints of the Gods. He said, Floyd, he goes, I have a book for you and I think you might like it. And I did. I thought it was a very intriguing interesting book about the possibility that our ancient ancestors interacted with extraterrestrial beings.

Yeah, I like Eric von Daniken. The only book I’ve read of his was Chariots of the Gods when I was younger. And that was because I’d already had interactions with UFOs and star people. So it was just a… Interesting. Yeah, it was just a… Kind of a validation in a way. I was only young. I was only in my early teens when his book came out, I think. Can’t remember when it came out. But he’s a great author. I’d love to talk to him one day if I ever had the opportunity. Very interesting man. And I can see how his works would have sparked more interest in you and more of a desire. You have a very curious mind. Yes.

I do. And I even like reading some of the ancient texts and I found interesting things in there, and I remember. Even as a boy looking in the Bible in Genesis six, there’s a very interesting passage. Right, And I’m paraphrasing it. And there were giants in the earth in those days. And thereafter, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bore them children and they became mighty men of renown. And from a time I was a young boy, I thought that is really interesting, but I never really looked into it. Until I, got into adulthood and started investigating these ancient mysteries and then I was like, wait a minute. The Bible’s saying there were giants in the earth and the sons of God had sex with the women of the earth and they bore giants.

Who were the sons of God? And then that sparked me on a journey to discover who the sons of God were. And that led me into some other books of the Bible that were left out of the canonized version, particularly the book of Enoch, the book of giants. And those types of books. And the book of, I believe, Jubilees has a lot of information in there on the watchers. Who were fallen angels or extraterrestrial beings, that came to the earth and found the women fair .And they interbred with humankind and as a result of that produced giants.

Yes. when I hear that, I always think, Oh, those poor woman did it destroy their bodies when they gave birth to these massive – or was it like a Caesarean birth? ‘Cause all these things that come to my mind.

Marianne, that’s a very interesting question because I’ve heard other researchers ponder that, those exact questions. And I’ve heard answers being that some of them did have to have Caesarean sections. And that a lot of them died. Most of them died during the process. And so that was almost like a sacrifice. That these were evil beings. Because in the text, it talks about how they ravaged the earth. They killed humans. They fought amongst themselves. They drank blood. And they were very violent. They were very evil. And so it was symbolic that the mothers that birthed them would die. And so that was almost like a sacrifice to these evil beings.

I always felt, when I had read these stories that the woman could not have survived the birthing process. And especially back then maybe they didn’t have the tools that we have today. But. It’s also possible that it was artificial insemination and yeah.

That gets very interesting that you say that because actually in the book of Enoch, there’s a passage in there that reminds me of what you just said. And it talks about the Nephilim. Which were the giants and Nephilim is an ancient Proto- Hebrew word meaning fallen ones. And how they were actually not only corrupting the bloodline of humanity. But they were corrupting the plant life and the animal life. And I thought, that is a really unusual passage.

It almost sounds to me like a genetic engineering. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Manipulation. Yeah. Totally.

Have you ever heard of Paul Wallace? I actually had him as the guest. He was one of my most, still is one of my most listened to episodes. He was a minister for over 40 years. Studied all over Europe. Studied all ancient texts from many different cultures, and he wrote a book called Escaping from Eden. And in it,

I’m going to write that down. Yeah.

In it, he postulates that actually the book of Genesis tells that humanity was actually created by an alien species. And that there was a war between factions of the species. And, the giants and all those came from their genetic experimentations.

It’s very fascinating reminds me of the works of Zachariah Sitchin, a little bit from what you’ve mentioned about him. And that was another researcher that I discovered and he studied the ancient Sumerian tradition. Clay tablets. And basically the Sumerian culture believed that all their knowledge came from the gods, who came from the skies. And they said they were giants. And in fact there are depictions of these beings sitting on a throne and the ruler is just as tall as them sitting down as the person is standing before the throne. So it could be just symbolic that they’re, just making the image of the king larger because royalty. Or I’m curious, could that have also been a literal depiction of these beings that they were giant. That they were very tall.

I have seen Egyptian, is it cartouches? Is that the word for Egyptian drawings that shows these miniature humans sitting on the lap of giant human.

Yeah, it’s like in the hieroglyphics.

Yeah, hieroglyphics.

Hieroglyphics, yes. And I’ve seen some of those too, Marianne, and there’s one that’s just popping in my head and it showed these giraffes. Did you see that one? And it showed these giraffes and it showed these beings that were as tall as the giraffes and then it had smaller people next to these animals.

I did see one where the person was holding elephants in his hand. Interesting. Yeah. I can’t remember where I saw that, but there’s a lot of clues out and about there, that previous civilizations have left for us, I believe.

Yes. Yeah. And in fact, when you think of giants, they’re just in about every major culture, there’s mention of giants. Of course, we know about the Greek giants, when the giants were Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Cyclops, the one-eyed. And it’s interesting you mentioned the Cyclops because I just saw an article of a skull that was found in the Philippines and it had the one eye, literally. It was a deformity, but it had the just giant one eye. So they literally have archaeological evidence that there were at least some of these things existed. Now that could have just been obviously a deformity and maybe not like a race of these Cyclops. But it is interesting and I talk about it in my book where I say where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Behind every legend I believe there’s usually some kernels of truth. And that’s what I believe with the giants as well, that there is truth behind these legends.

Absolutely. I 100 percent agree with you. Now, I, and if there’s any listeners listening who know about this, I would really love to hear from you. I had heard that some of the U. S. military in Afghanistan, or over in the Middle East, somewhere. Encountered a giant bean who actually killed several members of the platoon.

I have heard that story. In fact, I saw the video of one of the soldiers, alleged soldiers. That was somehow involved in that. And I’m not saying the story is true. I didn’t include that story in my book because I wanted, when I talked about the giants, I wanted to produce as much evidence as possible. In the form of articles, eyewitness testimonies. And even pictures of skulls and bones when I was able to obtain that. But I did see a video where the soldier was being interviewed. His face was blacked out so you could just hear the audio of him speaking. He sounded very convincing. And I, at the time had a friend who was a counter-intelligence officer in the US military. And I asked him, I said, Eli, if I send you this video clip, could you just listen to it? The gentleman’s face is blacked out. So you can’t see his facial expressions, but you can hear what he’s saying. And just give me your opinion of what you think? Is the guy lying? Or is he telling the truth? And, my friend was extensively trained in interrogation. Right. And he listened to the video clip. And he said, Floyd, he said, I can’t, without seeing the facial expressions and everything, and just listening to the audio, he says, I can tell you this. He said. That man believes what he’s saying. Now, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s being truthful. But he said, he absolutely believes in the story that he is telling,

Interesting. Yeah. I would really love to know more about that. And I’ve been looking around but obviously there’s just who do you contact? Who do you? Yeah, it’s really difficult.

Yes, and one interesting thing that I do remember when I watched that video clip and it was the researcher, that was interviewing the soldier. And I’m trying to think of the gentleman’s name. It’ll pop in my head. But I do remember in that interview that the soldier said that this giant lived – it was in a remote area of Afghanistan and the local villagers worshipped it as a God. They worshipped it as a god. And I don’t know if they left sacrifices out for it or what? But I just thought that was very interesting. And they also said that it had red hair. Yes. Which is fascinating because in a number of accounts of giants, there is mention of red hair. And in fact, I just recently watched a documentary on New Zealand. And the documentary is on YouTube. You can find it. It’s called ‘Skeletons in the Cupboard.’

Yeah. That’s a great documentary.

Have you seen that?

Yes, I have.

Yeah. It’s very fascinating. And it talks a lot about, these different cultures. Going back thousands of years that inhabited New Zealand. But it, I remember the documentary. They mentioned that they were talking about these giants. And that they had reddish hair. And they also talked about little people and how the, please pardon me if I mispronounce, is it the Māori?

The Māori.

Yeah. The Māori. How when they came to New Zealand that , there were already people there and that there were these little people. These little people there. And they had interactions with them.

Yes, that’s a very controversial documentary. There are some Maori who say yes, that’s true. There’s other Maori who say, no, we were the only people here, it’s very controversial, but I say go where the evidence leads.

I say go where the evidence leads, and it’s interesting because that parallels with some of the things over here in North America with the Native peoples.Now in a lot of the Native American traditions, they talk about that there were giants in the land. In fact, that there were giants here, when their ancestors got  here. That there were already giants here. And the central story of my book revolves around a particular area in the United States, in Nevada. In the Southwest. In an area called Lovelock.

And it’s called Lovelock Cave. And in that area, the native peoples, which are called the Northern Paiute, throughout their oral traditions, talk about that there was this race of giants. That had red hair, that lived in this area. And they were very violent. They were very evil. They would attack neighboring tribes. And they would actually cannibalize their victims.

And so, there’s this correlation in many of these ancient accounts from all over the world of these giants being violent and being cannibalistic. And I find that’s interesting in this particular story, these giants were cannibals. They were evil. And finally, the Northern Paiute got tired of being attacked. And so they banded together with other local tribes. And they waged war on these red-haired giants, that lasted for three years.

Which, yes. Which culminated in the last of the red-haired giants being cornered in Lovelock Cave. And then the Paiutes threw brush in front of the cave. And they lit flaming arrows. And they gave these giants an ultimatum. They said, Stop! Why don’t you stop what you’re doing? Why don’t you live like men? And they didn’t get any response back from the people in the cave. And who knows? Maybe that tribe didn’t even speak the same language. Who knows? And so they shot the flaming arrows and allegedly they burnt the giants, the red-haired giants to death. Now, those remains and artifacts from that cave were discovered in 1911.

There were two guano miners. And guano is basically bat dung. And they were mining this cave. And they uncovered some skeletal remains and artifacts. And then they called in the local university to come in and do an excavation. Which revealed around 46 bodies. Yeah, some researchers believe, that the number could have been different. Because the very first excavation on the cave was sloppily done. It was just, it wasn’t very organized. And so there’s disputes about exactly how many skeletons came out of the cave. But, from my research, roughly around 46 or so. And thousands of artifacts came out of the cave.

Now, what’s interesting is the artifacts were distributed to several different museums. However, the skeletal remains disappeared. They were taken out and no one knows where they’re at. And this is where the story gets really interesting because allegedly there were some skulls that came out of Lovelock Cave, that ended up in a little local museum called the Humboldt Museum. In an area called Winnemucca. And they were kept in the basement.And this is ironic because it goes back to the title of that documentary. It says skeletons in the cupboard. We were talking about these skulls, they kept them in the cupboard. And they weren’t put on public display. So if you wanted to see these unusual skulls, you had to ask the curator to take you down to the basement and they would open up the cupboards and, show you the skulls, which I thought was very strange.

Was ever put on public display? Why were they kept down in the basement? And then I was wondering why were the skeletal remains disappeared? And yet there are some skulls that ended up in this museum? And I was thinking is it possible that before the official excavation got started, before the university got out there. That there was some people that went out to the cave and, cherry picked some things? And took some artifacts and took some, skulls and other remains out of there? And perhaps, maybe, some of those skulls were the ones that were cherry picked and they ended up in that little museum. And this gets…


Yes. Gets very interesting. Cause, I contacted the museum. wanted to view the skulls myself when I started to write my book. And they said, no, the skulls aren’t here anymore. We repatriated them back to the Native American tribes. Now, there was a law that was passed in the 1990s called NAGPRA. And that law basically said that any of the museums that had Native American remains, they could not put them on display. That they would have to be repatriated.They had to be given back to the Native tribes. And yes. And I don’t know if that’s similar over in New Zealand, with some of the indigenous peoples there as well?

We have had some people from overseas who’ve taken things like shrunken heads and stuff, that have returned them. Not a lot, but some have been returned, yeah.

Okay. Interesting. And so I wanted to see the skulls. They said, oh, the skulls are not here. And I had found some… a few photos online of the skulls. Particularly one of a large jawbone. And it was next to dental model of an average person’s set of teeth. And if you look at the jaw and you look at the teeth in the jaw. And then you look at the average dental model. You can see that the teeth and that allegedly of that jaw. That giant skull was about twice the size of a normal tooth. And so it was definitely a size difference. I couldn’t see the physical remains. And I started asking some more questions and then they just cut me off. They the curators didn’t even respond to me. And I thought I’m not getting anywhere here. I’m going to have to go elsewhere to get information. And I did reach out and contact a researcher.

His name is M. K. Davis. And he had some photos of a friend. That a friend took. His name was Don Monroe. He took of those skulls, at that museum in Humboldt. Back probably 50 years ago. And he allowed me to use some of those photos in my book. And there’s one in particular of a giant Massive skull. And in the upper row of teeth, it had almost a double set of teeth. Not quite a full set. But it had extra, what in medical terms is called, supernumerary teeth.So it had extra teeth in the upper row. Which is interesting. Because in a lot of the accounts on giant skeleton discoveries, as I was researching my book, they talk about these skeletons being found. With double rows of teeth. … teeth, right. In fact, being very specific and saying in the upper row. And so, here is an actual picture of this giant skull, with a massive jawbone. With extra teeth in the upper row.

And I thought this is amazing. And it also had a little patch of. hair on the skull, that was reddish in colour. Which is interesting. Because again, you have the Native American. The Paiute tales of these giants having red hair. And here there’s a skull, that has red hair and it has, it looks very big. Much bigger than an average skull. And now the skulls are gone. And all I have is photos. And other testimonies of people who claim that when they were young, when they were kids… This is like going back in the forties and fifties that have gone to that museum. And they said not only at one time were there skulls in there, but one person even said there was a full mummy. And it was probably seven to eight feet long. And it was a full mummy that was kept in that basement. And they said they’ll never forget. Because, they looked on the hands and they can see the nails on the hands. And they were large. It was just huge. Huge mummy.

So what on earth happened to that? What on earth happened to that? And so the museum says they gave them back to the native tribes. But if the native tribes believed that those were red haired giants, that their tribes warred with for three years. That were attacking their tribe and cannibalizing them. My question is, why on earth would those Paiute tribes even want those skulls back?

Yeah, exactly. Oh, this leads down a pile of rabbit holes. I have heard many people say that much of the stuff disappeared into the Smithsonian Institute. Never to be seen again.

Yes, I have a section of my book on that. I actually call it the Smithsonian Gate. And many people don’t realize that the founding of the Smithsonian Institute was from a grant. From a gentleman from England. And his name was James Smithson. He had this dream of just funding this huge museum. And he had good intentions, behind it. And he said, if I don’t have any heirs I’m just going to donate this sum of money to the American government, so they can start this museum up. And sure enough that’s what he did. And going back from its founding in the 1800s. And we’re talking probably mid to late 1800s,. What was taught at the Smithsonian was basically if any remains are found in North America. Any artifacts or ancient human remains. They could not come from any other civilization. They had to be of Native American origin.

There was no other chance of it being anything other than Native American. Right. And so from the early times that’s the dogma that they taught. And if you looked outside of that, then if someone came across a skeleton that didn’t fit in with that description, then they would be attacked .And they would say, oh, that the skeleton was mis-measured. Or it was faked. Or, it would just disappear. It’s sometimes easier just to sweep things under the rug. And I think in that documentary, Skeletons in the Cupboard, they talked a lot about that. That you have these controversial archeological finds. And sometimes it’s just easier for these academics, these scientists. To just go, wow! This is opening up a can of worms. It’ll be easier for us. Let’s just sweep this under the rug. And let’s just stick with what we’ve been teaching all these years.

That brings us to the subject of hidden archeology really, doesn’t it? It does. And all things that they hide from humanity because they don’t fit into the narrative of what they want us to believe.

Absolutely. And I talk about that in my book and I use a term called knowledge filtration. And it basically means that, yeah, it’s if you have a dogma or a belief system, And you encounter anything that falls outside of that box. Then you automatically just filter it out. Oh, that can’t be because this doesn’t fit in with what I’ve been trained. What I’ve been taught. What’s been promoted. And if it falls outside of that, it’s just gotta be a hoax. It’s gotta be faked. We’ll just box it up, like in the Indiana Jones movie. In the first one, remember? The end of the movie, he says, what happened to the Ark? And the guy says, we have our top man working on it. And then what happens in the next scene, right? The ark’s being crated up and wheeled to a warehouse and with thousands and thousands of other crates. They just put it away. Massive warehouse.

Yeah, I remember that. It also brings to mind another TV show, where they had a group of alphabet people looking after this warehouse. I think it was just called warehouse 17. Or something like that?

That sounds familiar.

And they store all these artifacts that have mysterious abilities or supernatural abilities in it. But it’s just like this massive storehouse. And it’s very often that those who control this reality, hide in plain sight what they do.

That’s very true. And here’s something that’s very interesting. In fact, I found this as I was looking at the, excavation records for the fir cave. The archeologist his name was Ella Loud, and he wrote this. He said, the largest of the mummies was given to a fraternal lodge. To be boiled and used for initiation purposes. And I thought. Wait a minute, so all of these skeletons that came out of there, none of the public can see them.They disappear. But yet in the archaeological documentation it says that the largest of the specimens was given to a fraternal lodge. To be boiled and used in initiation purposes. I thought, that is just mind blowing what on earth is going on here?

And what secret society?

And what secret society precisely and I did some research and I did a little bit of investigation. That I included in my book, as the potential of which fraternal organization that mummy could have gone to. So I contacted the historical society in that area, around Lovelock cave, during the time that those skeletons were found. Which was back in 1911. And I asked the historian, I said, what fraternal lodges were in that area during this period of time? And they said, there were two, there were the Knights Pythias, which is a fraternal organization. And of course there was a Masonic Lodge. Which is still in existence to this day. It’s still there. So I thought, this is interesting. I want to do some research into the Knights Pythias. And the Freemasons to find out if there is any truth that they did use human remains, in any of their rituals. And I looked into the Knights Pythias. And I did find a little bit of information that in one of their particular rituals, they had a skeleton that was used. And it didn’t specify it didn’t indicate, said that it’s a real skeleton. Was it a real skeleton? Or was it, just this mock skeleton?

However, it gets really interesting with the Freemasons, because I uncover evidence. Actually within the past 15 – 20 years, of several Masonic Lodges in Australia getting in trouble, because human skulls and other remains were found in the lodges there. Apparently there were some workmen doing renovations on one of the lodges and they see these human skulls. And obviously they were like, I think we should notify the authorities because these are.Human skulls. And they did. And the police launched an investigation and determined that those skulls were ancient aboriginal skulls that these Freemasons were using in their rituals, right? So they got in trouble for that, obviously, for good reason. And their excuse was, oh, we use these skulls in our initiation rituals. To help our members realize the importance, the value of time. And how fleeting time is. And to use their time wisely. And I’m thinking, okay, but do you really need to use actual human remains, in these rituals? It just was very odd to me.

That would have been my first guess for who took it, to be honest.

Yes. And of course I reached out to that Masonic Lodge there in the area, in Winnemucca. And of course they said, Oh no, we don’t have the remains. We never had anything to do with it. That’s the answer that I figured I was going to get.

Yeah, of course. Of course. Oh very interesting. Do you feel, you That with the giants that you studied in that particular area, do you feel that even though they were killed off that there are still beings around?

That’s an excellent question. In my opinion, yes! I do believe. Because now we get into the subject of Sasquatch or Bigfoot. Oh, and I know in Australia they call, do they call it Yowie?

Yowie, yeah. And in New Zealand, he’s called the Moehau Man.

Oh, okay. So yeah. You have all these accounts all over the world. Tell me more about that.

Actually he goes by different names depending on the tribe or the iwi, the Māori tribe. They have different names for him. But Moehau Man is named after the mountain range where he’s found. Which is way out in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah. Okay. That’s so fascinating. And yes, I do believe. I believe in Sasquatch. I do believe in Bigfoot. In fact, the area where I live is a hotbed. I live in Washington. So Washington and right across the river, Oregon. There’s tons and tons of encounters and sightings of a Bigfoot. And in fact, I’ve met three different people in the past three or four months that have actually had face to face encounters with Bigfoot. One was a paleontologist. Who actually works at a museum. The North American Bigfoot Museum in Oregon. Which is probably about a 35, 40 minute drive from where I live. It’s a neat little museum and they have all these castings of, alleged Bigfoot prints. And just books and videos and just tons of information on Bigfoot.

And he, this gentleman worked there. And I just had got into a conversation with him. And he said, yes, he goes, I have had an encounter. He is a paleontologist and I think it happened near Mount Hood, in Oregon. He said he was out with a research group and he said he saw a group of them. I think he said there was a group of two or three of them. And it was just amazing to hear him, just give a description of that. And then there was another gentleman that worked there as well. And he had an encounter. He was camping and a friend of his was supposed to meet him at the campsite. And couldn’t make it out there. So he was by himself. And he was sitting around the campfire.

It was late at night. This was in Malala, Oregon. And he said he, he looked up. And he said out from behind a tree, this being was peering at him. And it wasn’t like a giant. He said it was probably. Probably like six feet tall, maybe? Five or six feet tall. So he believes that it was more of a juvenile, bigfoot. I said what did it look like? And he said, do you remember the old Planet of the Apes movies? I don’t know if you saw any of those, Marianne? He said it had a very similar, a similar appearance to one of those. Yeah. Yeah. And then I have a neighbor, an older gentleman who’s always out walking his dog, and I always have conversation with him. And I recently found out that he had two encounters with Bigfoot.

He asked me, he goes, oh, and how did your weekend go? And I said, oh, I went to the North American Bigfoot Museum. And he goes, Bigfoot and his eyes lit up. And he goes, I had 2 encounters with Bigfoot. And I’m like, what? And he goes, yeah. And so he starts going into these details of two different encounters that happened in the Bonneville area on the Washington side. The 1st encounter he had, it was with him, his grandson, and he had a friend. And they were out riding dirt bikes on these old logging roads. And his friend wasn’t familiar with the area with the roads.

And he took a curve too quick. And he fell off his bike and was injured. And they were in process of helping him. He was all bloodied up. And they were assisting him. And they heard a noise and they looked up. All three of them did. And off in the distance they see this being. It was huge. It was covered in fur. And he said Floyd it had to be at least eight foot tall, from the distance where we saw it. And judging by how tall it was. And he said it was walking very quickly, taking these big strides. And he said it looked back. And his grandson just was stunned. And his grandson looks at him and goes, grandpa, he goes, what is that?

And Andy looks at his grandson and he goes, remember this day. He goes, you just saw a bigfoot. And they all three saw this thing. In fact, Andy said that his description of it was he could see the outline of it. Not too much details. But he said the description that his grandson and his friend gave were exactly, very much more detailed. And they said they could even see the muscles in its butt when it was walking away. Like they saw the musculature in its buttocks as it was walking.

Wow! That’s very clear to be able to see that.

Yeah, all three of them. And then he had another encounter sometime after that. Because after that encounter, he goes, Floyd, I want to go hunt Bigfoot. He wanted to find it again.  And he did have an encounter. I think his grandson was with him. A second encounter. And this time he had a rifle with him. And he was on a quad. And he said, we were going down this logging road and we went by this area. And it was just canopied over with trees. And he goes, we had stopped. And the hair on the back of my neck stood up. And he said, then a whole herd of deer came running towards them like they were running from something. And so they ran right past them. And they continued forward. And he said, back behind some trees he said he saw a big foot. It was huge. And he said, Floyd, he goes, I was so scared. I was just frozen. My grandson saw it again too. And one thing he said to me that was interesting. And I’m going to have to get more details on this. He said he felt like it was playing with his mind. He used the term like a magician. Like it was doing something. He felt like something was trying to get into his mind.

And he turned his quad around and got his grandson. And they drove as fast as they could away. And then again, they ran into the herd of deer that had fled. And the biggest buck was in front of the deer. He said they had taken a triangular formation with the buck up in front to defend. And they came zooming through there. And he said, Floyd, we weren’t stopping for these deer. Because I was afraid of what was there. And they just cleared out. And they just drove right through them. But no one has ever documented those encounters. And so in fact, He’s going to allow me. And I’m going to do it this weekend. I’m going to try to do some very detailed reports of both of those encounters that he had.

That would be really interesting. yeah, I had heard that there were a lot of sightings around that region.

Yeah, Mount Hood, that’s certainly an interesting area, isn’t it?

It is.

There’s been a lot of sightings and a lot of footprints. I’ve probably seen the Bigfoot casts that the researchers make. And there’s been a lot of footprints in that area. But and this gets back to the question that you brought up earlier. That could these be some species? Some ancient species that have been here for maybe a long time? That there’s still a remnant of them that are left. And I discussed that in my book. There was a discovery made in San Diego. Back in the 1990s, they were doing road construction. And they uncovered the bones of a mastodon. A giant mastodon. And they were broken up. And next to these bones were these stone cobbles. These stone cobbles that look like they had been made by an intelligent being, right next to where the bones were broken up.

And so the paleontologist, they, of course, they did analysis on the bones of this Mastodon. And they had found that the marrow had been sucked out of the bones. Oh, interesting. So they believed whoever these individuals were that found this mastodon originally, they came across it after it had recently died. And they used these stone cobbles to break the bones open, to suck the marrow out. Because there’s a lot of protein in there. And so what’s very interesting about this, is when they dated the bones, they said these bones could go back possibly 130, 000 years ago. So wait a minute. So we have evidence, some archaeological evidence of hominids. Some upright, walking, intelligent, being here in North America. Possibly going back 130, 000 years ago. Because what we’re told is the first people here in North America. The native peoples, came in maybe 20, 000 years ago.


So this gets very interesting. So the question is, who were those beings that, found that mastodon? Were they Neanderthals? Were they possibly some hybrid of some other type of hominid that we don’t know of? The natives talk about, there were giants in the land before we were here. And they have many different names. Just like you were talking about the, the tribes over there in New Zealand have the different names for the Bigfoot. It’s the same with the Native Americans here. And some of them call them, ancient .The old ones. Or the ancient. The ancestors.

Yeah. That’s right, quite respectful really. Yes. That reminds me, talking about the mastodon. It reminds me of photos that I’ve seen of human. Giant human footsteps, alongside those of dinosaurs.

Yes. Are you referring to the Paluxy River in Texas? There was an area over there.

I’m not sure where it was. Yeah, probably was.

Okay. Yeah, that’s one of the more famous ones. Now, there could be other ones, in different parts of the world. But that’s the one I’m familiar with. One of my late friends, Dr. Charles Spurgeon. In fact, he’s one of the people I dedicate my book to. He actually did some research on those tracks in Texas. And he had sent me a photo of him squatting down near where those tracks are. And I haven’t seen them myself, I’ve just seen the photographs of them. But they are very intriguing. Because yes, it looks like you have sets of dinosaur tracks. And it looks like you have a human-like footprints. And if I remember correctly, they were a good size. Yeah. Yeah. Next to the dinosaur. And again, if that is true? If that’s what they are? Then that opens up, what, another can of worms, right Marianne? Because now we’re talking about a hominid being. Upright walking having coexisted with dinosaurs. Which history tells us Oh no, that didn’t happen. The dinosaurs had died off long ago. 65 million years ago, they died off. And our ancient ancestors never saw dinosaurs.

That’s right. And there’s another one. I think it might be in Indonesia. It’s a massive footprint in a rock.

Oh, I know which one you’re talking about. I believe that’s in South Africa.

Oh, South Africa. South Africa. Yes, I’ve seen that. And that is an enormous footprint. And it is so detailed. Like you can really see the toes. And you can look at that and go, wow! That looks very detailed. And I don’t know how old it is, but thousands and thousands of years, or maybe tens of thousands of years old. Who knows? Maybe millions of years old. And it looks like the foot pushed the dirt up in front of it. As you would if you’re walking through mud.

Yes. Yeah, there are things like that, just cannot be easily explained. That totally contradict the history of this world as we’ve been taught.

Yeah, it’s very interesting, isn’t it? In your research for your book about the museum, was there any other stuff that you stumbled across, that you didn’t expect to find?

There were some interesting things. I actually did have a brief dialogue with an anthropologist in that area. He was a very nice gentleman and I discovered him. He has some videos on YouTube talking about these red haired giants. And different tribes called them various names. But one of the names they were known by were called Satika. And Satika means Thule eaters. And Thule is a water plant. And that was in that area. There used to be a lake, and it was much more marshy in that area, a long time ago. And allegedly, these giants, They would utilize this water plant. And they would make basketry out of it. And they even made duck decoys, which you could still see in the museums. They have these things. And they’re very detailed. In fact, the anthropologist said, I saw an article that he did on these duck decoys. And he said, these things are beautiful. And there’s been much more detail than even is necessary for that type of an artifact.

And also there was a sandal that came out of the cave. He sent me a picture of it. It was made out of that water plant, the thule. It was a woven sandal and he actually had it around a casting of an alleged big footprint. It was that big. And he had it going across the big footprint. And I calculated the measurements of that sandal fragment. And it translated into a shoe size us shoe size of 29. Which is a record. I looked at all the records of all the basketball players, and everything. And there was no shoe size that came near the size of a size 29.

That’s so interesting. You spent, obviously, a long time doing all this research.

About four years of research not just on the giants, but there’s a lot of other subjects in my book. I get into the little people as well, and that’s a fascinating subject. As I was accumulating all these old articles on giant skeleton discoveries in North America. I started coming across old articles on, they called them pygmy skeletons. I thought this is unusual. And I started looking at some of these articles and saving them. And there was these descriptions of these little skeletons that were found. That were not much taller than three feet. And when they did an analysis on the teeth, they found out they had the wisdom teeth. So they were adults. They weren’t children. And of course the native tribes, a lot of them speak of these little people. Not just about giants, but little people. And then of course we have the archeological discovery in the early two thousands, on the island of floris in Indonesia. Of the Floris Hobbit.

That’s right. I had completely forgotten about that. That’s right. And then you have the Hawaiian legions of the Menehune?

Menehune? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I actually have a friend that’s Hawaiian and Filipino. And he was telling me his family stories about the Menehune. And I don’t remember, I think it was one of his relatives that actually saw Menehune. Saw a little person. At night.

Yeah. Very interesting. I know that here in New Zealand. And again, this is really controversial. As we say, up north, which is the top end of the North Island, which the public isn’t allowed to go there now. But there were a whole pile of .Little stone huts and tiny villages found.

I saw that. Didn’t they have that in the documentary in the skeletons in the cupboard?

I think that they might have mentioned that actually.

Yes, it showed one of the, her name was Gabby Plum. She was one of the producers of that show. They showed those little structures. And they had this little tiny doorways. And she was actually squatting to go inside and there was a whole bunch of them, a whole series of them.

Yeah. And one of my guests that I interviewed in an episode on what we call the Patupaiarehe. Which are the fairy folk in New Zealand. He was he was given A lot of people share their experiences with him. And he was told of an experience that these forestry workers had. Where they had to go and do some work deep in the forest and they came across little people. Like actual little people. Just saw them running. They thought they were kids first, and then they said how could kids be in this area? This is so remote. There’s no way it could be children. And then they realized it was actually adult male running. But he is the size of a child. Yeah.

Wow. That’s amazing. I met a lady on another podcast I did who actually had, an encounter with a little person. She was with her her niece and she was walking through a wooded area. And she said, I looked over and there was this little person, not more than three feet tall. And it looked like they had an older style clothing, and it had a little broom. And it was like sweeping. And this is, in this, in the middle of this wooded area, it was sweeping. And it looked up at them. And she’s in shock. And she looks at her niece to like verify are you seeing what I’m seeing? And her niece goes, yeah, it’s a little person. The little person, so they both saw it. And she said, Floyd, as we looked at it, it looked up at us, and acknowledged us. And then it went back to doing what it was doing. But she said it was translucent, like she could see through it. And then it disappeared.

There is a school of thought that they are interdimensional beings.

Yes, and I’ve heard the same thing said about the Bigfoot too. And some of the tribes believe that they are interdimensional, and that’s why they haven’t been found. Or there is like a series of giant footprints, and then they just seemingly stop. And just disappear.

Yeah. Yeah, I’ve heard that too. Such an interesting subject. Your book doesn’t just cover the giants. It covers little folks. It covers Bigfoot. You cover quite a few areas.

Quite a bit. Not so much into the Bigfoot. I’m saving that for my second book. I do get into the kind of the discussion that we’re having about these ancient hominids possibly of coming to North America. And I get into the subject of the Denisovans. Are you familiar with the Denisovan Discovery?

No, I’m not.

Okay, this gets really interesting. Denisovans were discovered in 2010. There was an archaeologist excavating a cave in Siberia and it was called Denisova Cave. And they found a tooth and it was huge. It was this giant tooth. And they found a knuckle bone and some other artifacts. There was a, like a stone bracelet that had little tiny 8 millimeter holes drilled into this bracelet. Which was astounding because it dated back about 50, 000 years.


Yes. And they did the DNA sequencing on the tooth and the knuckle bone and they determined that it was a hominid species. Was upright walking species. One of our relatives, right? We all know about Neanderthal. Here is a new branch of humanity. And they call them the Denisovans. And this tooth was twice the size of a normal human tooth. In fact, the archaeologists that first found it, thought it was from a cave bear, because it was so long. Yes. And now that they have done the sequencing and determined that this is a new species, they’re actually finding Denisovan DNA in certain populations.

Now we know that the Neanderthals interbred with our ancient ancestors, and most of us will have Neanderthal DNA. In fact, most of us that are not directly African will have some Neanderthal DNA. And now they’re finding Denisovan DNA in some of the Native American populations. And they found Denisovan DNA over in Europe. And they found it over in Papua New Guinea.

There’s tribes over there that have higher percentages of Denisovan DNA. Now it gets even more interesting because back then we only had fragments. We only had bone fragments of this other species. This happened within the past few years. They found a full skull of a Denisovan. A massive skull in China. They call it homo longi, which means dragon skull. It’s shaped like a football. Very massive, very large. Big eye sockets. Like I said, a football shaped head. And it was found in the late 1930s by a Chinese worker, who was under forced labor from Japanese soldiers. There was the Japanese had occupied that area of China.

And when he was doing some, construction, he uncovered this giant skull. And what he did, instead of turning it over to the Japanese. Because he never would have seen it again. He went and hid it in a well. He put it in a well. And this man lived to be a very very advanced age. And on his deathbed, he finally revealed to his children that he had found the skull and where he had hid it at. So his children actually went and got the skull, recovered it. It was fully intact, which was amazing. Yeah. And they gave it to the local university there in China. And then they did the sequencing. And then based upon the DNA sequencing of that skull and then the tooth and the knuckle bone that was found in 2010, they determined that is a Denisovan skull.


And researchers believe, based on the bone fragments that we have, that these beings could have been on average about seven and a half feet tall. And our ancestors did interact with them. And Neanderthals interacted. In fact, they were all interbreeding with each other.

Oh, of course.

Yes. That’s what humans do, right?

Yeah. And it’s my understanding that humans are a created species anyway. very interesting. And the shape of the skull. That’s, is it elongated at the back?

It’s football shaped not as pronounced as like the skulls of Peru. And I get into the Peruvian skulls as well. ’cause that’s a fascinating subject. Fascinating. And I remember when I was watching that documentary, Skeletons in the Cupboard, they were talking about Peru. And how some of the ancient peoples in New Zealand believe that their ancestors came from Peru. And if you look at the skulls in Peru that they’re elongated. And some of them have hair attached and guess what color it is. Yeah. Red hair, right? It’s red. Red auburn hair, right? Yeah. So That gets really interesting. And in my book, I share some studies, some DNA studies of some of those skulls. Particularly in the area of Paracas. Where did they come from? The DNA shows that they actually come from, they have European DNA. And they have some Asian DNA. And the particular area where a lot of those skulls ancestry comes from, is around the area of the Black Sea. Which is around Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Turkey. All around that area.

And there’s a researcher named Brian Forrester that does just a tremendous job. Oh, I’ve heard of him. Right.. Yes, and I’ve referenced some of his work because he’s just an awesome researcher. And he believes that those elongated skull people originated in that area. And then they traveled. They were pushed out. Maybe there was some war going on and they were pushed out. And they fled and then they went to Peru. And then they lived in Peru. And then if you want to go into the theory of Skeletons in the C upboard, they again, migrated from Peru. And they ended up in South America. In North America. And in New Zealand. And they went to Tahiti. They went to Easter Island. Yeah. Because on Easter Island, the big statues, what do they have? Yeah. They have the big jaws, right? Which are descriptions of giant skeletons. A lot of times we talk about massive jaws. And some of them had what some people said were those little, are they red hats? Or is that the color of their hair? Is that little red top knot? So that they have evidence, maybe they had red hair.

Yeah. And they discovered also that the heads, that there’s huge bodies underneath. There’s bodies.

Yes. That there’s bodies there. Yeah, there is.

Oh, fascinating. How did you know when to close off that book?

There was so much I’m sure that could have kept adding to it. I had to force myself, Marianne, I had to say, Okay, Floyd, stop it. Stop it. Because your average person isn’t going to want to pick up a five or six hundred page book. Maybe some, like me, if I’m interested, yeah, I’ll do it. But a lot of people just, that’s too much. So I had to get myself to stop. And I have so many references left over from the research of my first book that will easily flow into my second book.

Oh, that’s awesome. How do you feel overall about the research, about Your findings, how does ,that make you feel?

Great question. It opens up even more questions. I thought I was gonna be, my goal was to try to answer some things, but it opens up more questions. Yeah. Which is more intriguing to me. Because I was going down one rabbit hole. And then all of a sudden, there’s another rabbit hole. I go down another one, and another one. And now I’m in a catacomb of, rabbit holes. But I’m amazed at all the mystery that we have just around it. Just the miracle of life itself. But then we have all of this ancient history. And all of these things that just many of us are not told about. And things that are not talked about. And if we want to expand our consciousness, we have to actively go out and search. And meet people and read books and watch videos. And have conversations like these to open our minds and, Yeah. So it’s, it opened up more questions. I thought it was going to perhaps close some doors, but it opened up more doors.

Yeah. Isn’t that always the way? And now you’re off on another hunt, in your next book.

I’m off on a, yes, I’m off on another hunt. And there’s just, there’s so much. My next book, when I start to write it I will have more on the giants. I will have more on the little people. I have more information on the little people. I’ve always been fascinated with Atlantis. And there’s a lot of archeological evidence that has come forth within the past 10 years regarding Atlantis. I think that’s a very interesting subject. I want to talk about that. And get into more of mysterious ancient artifacts. There’s just so much. There’s so much. Someone asked me the other day, they go, what is interesting to you? What are you amazed by? And I said, I’m easily amazed. I said, we’re surrounded by this information, new discoveries. I just saw an article where geologists believe that 400 miles beneath us, there are oceans underneath the earth. And there’s three times the amount… they say there’s three times the amount of water underneath us. Than there is on the surface of the earth.


And that really blows me away. I’m like, wow, that’s just amazing.

Yeah really interesting. Oh my gosh. I can see that you’re going to be busy. Where do you see yourself going from here, Floyd? You’ve got your next book coming up.

I got my next book. I have, yeah, I’m going to be very busy just researching, continuing the research that I’ve been doing. Getting more into the subject of Bigfoot. That’s a new subject to me, but I’m excited about it. Cause like I said, I’ve met three different people within the past number of months that have actually had encounters. Yeah. And when I hear these people and the sincerity. And the emotion that comes up when they’re telling these stories. It’s a validation to me that yes, what they’re telling me. They’re telling me the truth. It’s not something that someone’s just making up. I could just tell by the emotion alone that they had a very significant event, that happened to them.

Yeah. You can tell when people are being genuine. The overall body language, let alone the tension in their voices and stuff like that.

Absolutely. Yes. So that’s a new area that I want to explore. So I’ve been watching a lot of documentaries on Bigfoot. And I just recently purchased a book called Tribal Bigfoot and it gets into the whole Native American side of Bigfoot. Oh right! And that was written by David Paulides. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with his work? Missing 411.

Yeah, I’ve heard… Oh he would be interesting to talk to.

He would be very interesting. He’s a former law enforcement officer. And he gets into a lot of these mysterious disappearances in the national forests. And I’ve watched a couple of his documentaries. And the hair on the back of my neck just stood up. There’s some very unusual goings on in the national parks.

Very unusual. And a lot of cover up going on by… Absolutely. Services as well. Look Floyd, it’s been And just absolutely wonderful talking to you. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. It’s been a pleasure, Marianne. Thank you. Would you like to share with my listeners where they can get your book and any social media you’re on ?

Absolutely. Thank you so much. You can purchase my book at bookbaby.com. There’s a bookshop on that website. And again, the title of my book, The Red Haired Giants of Lovelock Cave and Other Ancient Mysteries. And if you are interested in purchasing the book, I would encourage you to go there. Because I’m a self published author and BookBaby really supports self published authors. You can also get the book on Amazon and Barnes and Noble as well. And my website is theancientgiants. com. There’s more information about my research and a little bit more background on me. And I have a chapter breakdown of my book. So it really gets into the contents of each chapter of my book as well.

For listeners who perhaps didn’t quite catch that, there will be Floyd’s links on this episode’s page of the podcast website, which is www.walkingtheshadowlands.com. So don’t worry if you missed it, just go to my website and you’ll be able to click the link and it will take you to his website and his information that you need. Are you on any other social media, Floyd, or is it just those?

I am on YouTube. I just started a channel there. I’m like a ball lost in tall weeds when it comes to that kind of stuff. So I only have a few subscribers. I do have some videos. You can just type in Floyd Wills, W I L S on YouTube and you can find my channel. There are some videos on there. And I do have some podcast links on there as well. Videos on there from other podcasts I’ve done.

Awesome. I will put that link in as well on your page. Floyd. I’ve just really enjoyed our conversation.

Thank you. I have too. It’s been a lot of fun.

It’s been really interesting. And as always, creates more questions than answers. So thank you very much for your time, Floyd. I really appreciate it. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Maybe when you finish writing your next book, we can have you back to talk about that.

Absolutely. I have a lot of information on my book on the ancient Sumerians . And the ET races. The tall whites, the reptilians. There’s a lot of stuff.

Floyd, thank you again for joining us.

My Pleasure.

And yeah, I look forward to talking with you again sometime later in the future.

Likewise, Marianne. Thank you.

As we conclude our journey through the corridors of history. Guided by the revelations and insights shared by our guest Floyd. The exploration of the Redhead Giants of Lovelock Cave and Other Ancient Mysteries, has certainly left us with much to contemplate. And as we reflect on the accounts of Redhead Giants, the disappearance of skeletal remains, and the intricate interplay between Native American tribes and the remnants of their ancient adversaries.

We find ourselves standing at a crossroads of myth and reality. Lloyd’s meticulous research and passion for unravelling the enigmas of our past has shed light on a tale that echoes through time. The legends of giants, whether rooted in fact. Or embellished by the passage of centuries. Serve as intriguing threads in the tapestry of our human history.

As I close this episode, I’d like to thank Floyd for sharing his wealth of knowledge and insight. If this conversation has stirred your curiosity, I’d encourage you to delve further into Floyd’s book, The Red Headed Giants of Lovelock Cave and Other Ancient Mysteries. And lastly, I’d like to thank all of you, my listeners, for accompanying us on this journey into the Shadowland.

As always, stay curious, stay open minded. And may your path be illuminated by the mysteries that beckon you to explore. Until next time, this is Marianne bidding you farewell from the  Shadowlands.

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