Episode 102: Strange Encounters Downunder

Kia ora, welcome everyone. If you are returning, thanks heaps for coming back to listen to another episode. If you are a new listener, thank you so much for joining us all today. It’s great to have you all here with us today. Strange Encounters Down Under, that’s not as naughty as the title might suggest.

In this episode we are hopping across the ditch, as we say here in New Zealand, to visit with our Aussie, as us kiwis call them, or our Australian neighbours.  We are going to look at a few Aussie myths, and talk a wee bit about that with my guest, and then the rest of this episode is going to be focused on my guest’s thirty odd years working in the paranormal and in particular, UFO related fields of study. Are you willing to walk with us into this part of the shadowlands and see where this journey will take us? Then let’s begin.

Sheryl Gottschall

Sheryl has had a life-long interest in the paranormal and began actively studying the paranormal in 1980 with her interest in Near Death Experiences. Soon after she joined the International Association for Near Death Studies (IANDs) and in 1995 hosted Dr Ken Ring on tour in Australia presenting research for his future book Mindsight: Near Death and Out Of Body Experiences In The Blind.

In 1988 Sheryl’s  other interest in extra-terrestrial life led her to join the Brisbane based Association, UFO Research Queensland and in 1992 Sheryl, with her late husband Dr Martin Gottschall, established the first close encounter support group in Brisbane. Sheryl’s current research bridges the Afterlife and UFO subjects, and in 2012 she established the monthly Afterlife Discussions group. She continues to find links between close encounters with non-human intelligences and the afterlife and believes that the two great mysteries of our time, are we alone in the universe and what happens when we die, may be more deeply connected than we realise.

Sheryl has had many paranormal experiences herself including an NDE, Out of Body experiences (OBE), UFO sightings, a close encounter with non-human intelligences (ETs), poltergeist activity, automatic writing, and other unexplained phenomena; all of which propel her to continue on her quest to understand what it means to be human. She speaks regularly about the

UFO phenomenon and the Afterlife at public meetings, conferences, community groups, schools and library groups, and has given hundreds of media interviews. She writes for UFO and New Age magazines and worked as a clinical hypnotherapist. She was a regular guest on the weekly Spooky Action radio show (2018) and co-hosted the Strange Encounters radio show in 2019 – 2020. She currently is co-host of the YouTube, Strange Encounters Downunder, show.

Sheryl Gottschall

Marianne: Sheryl Gottschall. Thank you so much for joining us today. I’ve been waiting to talk to you for a while since my friend Suzy from UfocusNZ and told me about you. So it’s really great to have you here with us today. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about what got you interested in this whole general field.

Sheryl: Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Marianne. I’m delighted to talk to people about these subjects living. It breathing. It thinking it.  Like many people who do podcasts and researchers, investigators, people of interest, yeah. I think I always had a tendency to be interested in things outside of the normal, because when I was a kid, I used to sit outside and look out at the stars and wonder if there was life out there? And I used to think, I wonder if there are people out there on planets looking at Earth thinking, I wonder if there’s life on there? That’s quite common. I found out myself because I interviewed people too.  And that’s a very common trait for people to have to do that when they’re children, which I had no clue until I started talking to people. When I was old enough to start earning my own income, I’d buy a magazine here in Australia, which was called Australasian Post, which is defunct now.

Yes, I  remember that.

Yeah. And it was a great magazine. I think John Pingby used to write a lot in there and he’s a well-known – He’s passed away now. But, he’s a well-known author of books on the paranormal. I used to read articles and I was just amazed at people’s stories. And it used to ignite my interests, you know, even more. But then that sort of died down, you know, as you grow up and you go to work, buy a house and have family and all that.

But, in nineteen-seventy-five I got interested in, or around that time, between seventy-five and eighty, I got interested in the afterlife. And it was about seventy-five, I think, that Raymond Moody coined the term ‘Near Death Experiences’. And I was fascinated by those, those stories. So I started looking into that. And then Raymond Moody? Oh no, not Raymond Moody. There were three people. I know Dr Ken Ring was one of the co-founders of IAMS, the International Association of Near Death Studies. So I became a member of that. And little did I know at the time, later on, in the nineties I’d be hosting Ken as he was doing his Australian book tour.

So, I used to get the old audio tapes of conferences sent out to Australia from the IAMs conferences. And from there I sort of developed an interest in God, basically. Everyone at one, some stage seems to ask, is this all there is? What else? What is my purpose and all those sorts of things? So, I did a home Bible study course. And that led me to, after three years, coming to the point that I think these descriptions of angelic visitations, are more like close encounter experiences.

And then from there, I’ve been in UFO research now for thirty-three years. And since two thousand and twelve, I’ve been running a monthly afterlife discussions group, as well. And now, I’m doing a podcast called Strange Encounters Down Under, which people can find on YouTube. But, we talk about all sorts of things that you do, too, Marianne. And I’m so pleased to connect with you. You know, with a like- minded person.

Isn’t it great?


I’ve interviewed a number of people who have, like yourself, an interest in this area. I interviewed a wonderful gentleman in Australia, can’t think of his name off-hand, but he studied the Yowie for years and years and years. And we had a great conversation. I’ve had people that have studied other cryptids. People in the states with bigfoot. It’s a really, really interesting subject. Maybe we could talk a little bit about that aspect at the moment? And you could perhaps, tell me some of the favourite stories that you heard in your journey, in this part of the Shadowlands?

Yeah, sure. About the cryptids. Well, I have a colleague here who was just speaking recently about this. That he had an experience some years ago. Where he was outside near his swimming pool. And in the evening at a place called Grafton, in New South Wales in Australia. And he saw this living creature which was shaped like a boomerang, but it was covered in scales and it was flying towards him. Which was – I think he said it was something like, oh, gosh, about one and a half to two meters across. It was huge. I’ve never heard a story like that here in Australia, ever! So that was really unusual. I haven’t actually seen a Yowie myself, and frankly, I don’t think I want to I don’t want to get that close.

Yeah. They sound a little bit scary, to be honest.

Yeah. And I don’t know whether you’re talking about Dean Harrison or Ray Doherty here in Australia? Who are very interested in Yowie’s. But I’ve heard some of their reports and about Yowie’s, particularly around Brisbane. Ray has been looking at those. During covid, when people weren’t going out, so much reports were coming in closer to the city. I think one floor is actually about sixteen km southwest of Brisbane.

Oh interesting

They’re coming in quite close. But my understanding is that the ones that sort of live on the periphery of civilization are a little bit more used to human beings. But as you go further into the bushland, they can be quite aggressive because they’re not used to humans. There are cases here. We’ve had black Panthers in Queensland, and that’s quite historical. In going back, oh, gosh, tens and tens of decades here in Australia. But in Queensland, there was one scene recently up around Cardwell in North Queensland.

And I have wondered, I have gone back and looked through Trove, which is where the national archive are putting a lot of the old newspaper clippings. And there have been reports of circuses that were in Australia, around the early nineteen hundreds. Where the owners just left and let the animals go. So I wondered whether the black panthers had something to do with that? I’m not really sure. But it is unusual that they’re actually often seen as a singular animal, which is really strange. So yeah, we certainly have our fair share of cryptids, cryptid reports here in Australia.

We’ve had black Panther reports here in New Zealand as well, mainly down in the Canterbury region, which is in the South Island. But, you know, it does make you wonder. Because, these reports are consistent in countries that don’t have indigenous big cats.

Yes. And obviously, wherever they came from, they’ve adapted to the environment. So, that’s interesting. But we have all sorts of strange creatures here. I just think that historically, when people came out to Australia, for example, they saw the platypus. And, they thought –  originally, they thought it was a hoax and joke, when they sent one back to England. But to them, a platypus might have seemed like a cryptid or the Tasmanian Tiger might have seemed like a cryptid.  Looking at it, it depends on how you look at these creatures. The times you live in and what’s culturally and scientifically accepted, isn’t it?

It is true. Like I know here in New Zealand, I did an episode in my first season. I did a whole pile of New Zealand based episodes, and one was on the cryptids in New Zealand. And when, we say cryptids, we’re talking about cryptozoological animals that may perhaps not have been properly identified. Not necessarily animals that are legend, legendary or mythical. Like, we had a type of otter, and I can’t remember the Māori name off hand. It’s no longer around. It’s extinct. But it was for that period of time, and it was cited quite regularly when New Zealand was being colonized.

And I think you’re right there. I think some of them were never identified, and over time they’ve probably died off. So they become quite rare, as well, yeah!

Do you know many of the Aboriginal Legends of Cryptids, like the Bunyip? And the. . .

Yeah, I’m aware of them. Yes, the bunyip is an interesting one. They’re living in waterholes, and they were used – stories about them were used to scare the children. To make sure they did the right thing and didn’t go out at night., and all those sorts of things.  But, there have been reports of them again. When I’ve gone back through Trove and looked at the old newspaper articles. Yeah. There were certainly reports in Brisbane, actually, and just east of Brisbane, along the coast. In an area we call the Redlands and Bunyip’s were reported to be seen there. Now, whether that was accurate or not –  Because, they were reported by European settlers. Not Aboriginal people. But I just wonder whether the Aboriginal mythology had come into their thinking. And maybe they misidentified something. Or, maybe it actually was a bunch that is now extinct, or very rare, very rarely seen. Yeah.

And for those listeners who aren’t from Australia or New Zealand and don’t –  haven’t heard of a bunyip? Can you please explain what a bunyip is supposed to be?

Well actually, I can talk about one report that I dug out of the newspaper archives. And, of course, Australians, when they hear of bunyip’s, they actually think of them as some sort of a legend. But one of the reports was back in eighteen-fifty It appeared in the Morton Bay Courier, and it was an aquatic monster seen off the property of a person in Logan River, in Queensland. Which is my state.

And a female member of a Mr. Pryor, female member of his family was walking near a large lagoon at the station that they were living on. When she saw on the surface of the water a living animal of extraordinary shape and dimensions. And she described it as the head appearing to be elongated and flattened, like the bill of a platypus. The body from the place where it joined the head to about five feet backwards, seemed like that of a gigantic eel being about the ordinary thickness of a man’s body.

So we’re not talking about something really tiny here. We’re talking about some really solid sort of creature. But, she said it was much larger because its head was coiled. Oh sorry, it had a coiled body. And beyond those coils was what seemed to be the tail of a fish, and having the semi-transparent appearance of a bladder. The head was small and narrow in proportion to the size of the body. And it was furnished with what seemed to be two horns, which were quite wide. So it’s a real mix.

Yeah, it is a real mix!

That was their description.

Yeah. First it sounded to me like you were describing, ah what is it? A plesiosaurus.

I think that’s it?

When I did the New Zealand ones, you know, we have our Taniwha here. Which is kind of a creature who lives in the waters. And, but not only in the waters on the land as well. And in the eighteen hundreds, there were a number of sightings, and one of the opinions popped forward was that it was a plesiosaurus

I don’t know how they go from lagoon to lagoon? Because some lagoons actually dry out in summer here.

Yeah, right.

So where do they exist? And how do they exist? Unless that again, they’ve adapted to the environment to that situation. But it’s a very short time for adaptation to take place, though, like one hundred and fifty and two hundred years.

Yeah, very true. Yeah, and of course, your water holes do dry up. That’s an Australian thing, isn’t it?  Yeah. Very interesting. And I remember reading about – when I was doing research for my interview with that chap in Aussie, a an Aboriginal legend. About this creature that would take – and I don’t know if it was one of these cautionary tales, that parents told their kids? But, an Aboriginal creature, that would actually take children if they went away from the parents.

Right. Yes, yes. I know what you’re talking about.

I don’t know what its name was.

Was it the hairy man? Short, hairy man?

That was one of the ideas it was, but another one was a shadowy type figure. I just find these myths and legends, so fascinating. Because, they all come from somewhere. And they’re not all stories. Often, very often as you say, maybe it’s the only way a person can describe it, has the ability to describe what they saw. But,  it doesn’t mean that it isn’t ah, a living being of some description.

Yes. Unlike the Wandjina who are spirit beings.

Yes. That’s it! That’s it! Wandjina, yeah!

Yes, yes. So, they’re spirit beings from my understanding, anyway. And anyone who is an Australian Aboriginal Indigenous person is listening to this. I do, I’m obviously acknowledging that I have no clue about your own understanding. And that you understand your own culture far better than I ever could.

Absolutely, yeah.

But yes, Wandjina spirit beings. And yes, they were, they were used to –  have been used to threaten children to not stray away from them. Yeah, definitely.

The reason I bring that up is that I heard, I came across a story in my research. Of a fairly recent case, of a sighting. And it was some teenagers, I think. Or, a teenager or something like this. I can’t even remember it. I wish I could remember it, but I remember thinking, oh, that’s interesting. And that’s really recent. I think it might have been in the nineties.

Yes. I think you’re right there. I actually think I have that newspaper clipping that I put on our Strange Encounters Facebook page. It’s not coming to me at the moment, but I just can’t quite recall what the story was. But, my interest in the Wandjina when you see the paintings – And while our Indigenous people portray them as spirit beings, I have wondered sometimes whether they were actually in times gone by, whether they could have originally been extra-terrestrial beings.

My thought as well.

Yes. And I do think that some extra-terrestrials can actually be. I don’t know why I think this exactly, but it actually has the ability to be physical and non- physical.

Yes, absolutely.

I don’t think that that’s too big a stretch of the imagination, because let’s face it, we have no – We’re still discovering life on Earth. We have no idea of how life has evolved in the universe. So, and I do know that there’s a book called The Book of Urantia, And in there they talk about the Midwayers. And the Midwayers are beings who are not of Earth, and they have the ability to be physical and both nonphysical. And actually, years ago, we had a guest speaker who had been to –  I think it was the Far Side Institute, and they’d been doing remote viewing there.

They had been asked to remote view life on Mars. And that’s why I’d asked him to come along, to be a guest speaker. To talk about what they found. But he said that one of the exercises was to remote view God. Well, no one got anything. They got nothing for that. But then, they were asked to remote view the afterlife. And when they did that, they came across these beings called Midwayers, which led him to the Book of Urantia. And I actually had a copy anyway, which is tome of a book.

And I find that fascinating because it’s all about the different beings and the different levels of life that populate the universe, basically. And these Midwayers are charged with the, the role of helping people after they’ve died. To take them where they need to go. A bit like, ah anyway, spirit helpers. After we died, these have the ability to be physical as well. And I have wondered, were they extra-terrestrials who had decided to take on this role. Or, perhaps were doing that role before humans were even on Earth anyway. So there’s a lot to think about in that.

Yes, an awful lot. And I’ve always said to people who because I’m not religious at all. But, for people who are religious, like my sister, for example, she’s been a Minister. Her and her husband have been Ministers, for decades. And when they talk about Angels, I say to them, think about it. What are Angels but extra-terrestrial beings?

Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, if you really whittle it down. Jesus was an alien hybrid.

I had a really interesting chat. That one of my favourite guests. And you may have heard of him, he wrote a book called Escaping From Eden.

Was that Paul Wallace?

Yeah. Paul Wallace. That’s the one really fascinating. I’ve had him on twice. Such a lovely chap to talk to. And he was a Minister for like fourty years. And he had an accident, and he was recovering. So he spent some time going over Genesis. And because he always had questions about Genesis, like, let us go down and make man in our image. He couldn’t reconcile how there could only be one God and all these gods. And so in his studies, he came to the conclusion through studying ancient tests, including the one you mentioned. And other ancient literature from around the world that humanity was created by a race of extra-terrestrial beings who in fact, were warring amongst themselves over humanity.

Yes, and that leads me into the idea of the Jinn. Because, they also sort of have been warring over humanity, too, in a more of a retaliatory way. And I have wondered how they tie in with the alien abduction experiences because for those people who don’t know about the Jinn, these are beings that can attach themselves to family lines, and they can be beneficial. They can be malevolent. And these are the sorts of stories that people have told me over the years who report class encounter experiences that in the family line, they have these abduction experience to get passed on from generation to generation.

And some of them, they’re quite traumatizing. Others they’re not. These are beings that are like people’s families. So their second family, or maybe their first family. They feel that their human family is their second family. They’re in the stars. There’s so many cultural stories about these types of beings. I think in Ireland, they have the Brownies who do play a similar role. I’ve got a book on the different beings that play these roles in different cultures, and it’s amazing how similar they are. And how they play out in the lives of people who report classic counters.

Absolutely. Paul, in fact, in my second interview with him and his second book, The Scars of Eden. He talks about one African tribe, and they have Mami Watas. I think they call it Mami Watas. Forgive me if I’ve got the name wrong. These beings who live in or near the water. Who abduct females, breed with them and then return them, unharmed after they’ve had a number of children. And in fact, he shared an experience from his family, of a young woman who was abducted. Missing for three years and then returned unharmed. And during that period of time, she said she was held captive and bred with.

Wow for three years? A person whose own family’s living today?

Ah, distant family. Yeah.

Wow. There are stories of people who go missing for decades and return, and they haven’t aged.

Yeah. Rip Van Winkle is one that comes to mind. That old legend Yes.

But, you know, even the Indian mystic Sadhguru he sat down and I think he did – He just went into an altered state of consciousness spontaneously. For I can’t remember ten days, two weeks, three weeks? I can’t even remember now. Sorry. And then, now he’s traveling the world, talking about –  On a motorbike, mind you talking about mysticism. His understanding of mysticism and transcendental experiences. And how to deal with the world. And it was like he went through some sort of Shamanic initiation, you know what we would call an initiation experience.

And this is what I think happens to people who have close encounters. Life is going along a certain trajectory. They have these experiences and some of them start in childhood, of course. And then, they’re changed by them. And they change in many ways. They become spiritually engaged, less interested in worldly experiences.  Less, care less about what other people think of them. Basically, they want to become less materialistic, and they want to be more of who they really are. They want to align what exists within themselves, in their outer world.

So I see a lot of them. I’ve followed them over the years, and I’ve stayed in touch with a few who develop an interest in healing. And so they go on and become healers, for example. I have one of those people I met many years ago. We’ve stayed in touch and become friends. And he was a nurse at the time when he was having his experiences. And now he’s, he does – he’s a massage therapist. So there’s a switch to more natural ways of healing. Although having said that, there was a young woman who became after her experiences, she studied psychology and became a psychologist. Because, she wanted to help people who had these experiences through mainstream medical systems. But it’s less of those. It’s more they go into the alternative health field.

I have a friend who did that same thing, and she’s a practicing psychologist. And she kind of patterns herself after Spock, that questioning type. But, she’s been an experience, too, her entire life.

Yes. And if they don’t go down the healing path, they go down the creative path. So they become artists. They’re musicians, performers, singers, actors. They’ll do sculpting, they’ll paint. They’ll do all sorts of things. There was one gentleman who was making Samurai swords and selling them. Another one was doing welding forms and selling those. And they change from completely left brain jobs, to right brain work. And that’s, that’s really interesting to me. And I wonder, I think that they probably had that right brain latency. But, their experiences switched their hemispheric focus in their brain to that more creative side, and it switched it on. It triggered it.

It could have possibly that is actually a good point. But also the right brain side, that intuitive creative side, it’s more closely attached to your heart and your feelings.

Yes. And actually, it could be one of the reasons why that particular family line is selected. Because, I find and you probably found this too?  That people who report close encounters often say, I mean, they often say, oh, I see dead people. I’ve had spontaneous mediumship things, and I don’t know what that is? Where it is it coming from? Or, they’ll start doing glossolalia where they’re speaking in tongues. Or, they’ll suddenly, suddenly become psychic. Or, if they already had those abilities, they’re enhanced ten times over.


Yeah, so. . . And that’s become quite common. And in the UFO research field, we’ve really only come to understand that in the last fifteen years. To acknowledge that. Before that, it wasn’t really being acknowledged much. It was by a handful of people, but not many.

Right. I can speak from my personal experience, my very first recollection of an experience was when I was three, three years old. That was my first conscious memory, although I had an experience earlier, but I don’t recall seeing beings in that time, but I was actually speaking with the niece of Betty and Barney Hill a while ago, and she’s a great researcher now. And she said to me, which I didn’t know, she said many of the thousands of experiencers that she’s talked to, had their first experience when they were three years old.


And I didn’t know that. So, that was a real revelation for me. And a validation as well, that, that it was – I’m getting goosebumps now, it was actually correct. And I recall, because I am psychic medium. I recall like, Suzie, being in learning environments, like in a classroom. It’s only thing I can liken it to, my entire life. And I remember them teaching me specific things about how to move things with my mind, the importance of sound and vibration, the importance of intent. And I know that what they taught me has, has made a huge difference to my ability to pick up on things.

Yeah. Yes, it’s very common.

Very common.

Many years ago, I was doing a weekly radio show, which I stopped. But then, one of our team took over, and he did continue to do that for seventeen years. It was called Paranormal Panel on Commercial Radio here on Radio 4BC. And I was telling him what I was finding in my research. I was interviewing people talking to him about this and saying, become highly creative. And it’s beyond statistics. This was so predictable. Ninety-five percent of people who were reporting close encounters, and this would have been going back in the late nineties, because, I’d had enough time to over a decade or more to be able to gather that information.

And I was saying to him that this is highly predictable. Well, he tested it out on radio. So every person who would come on radio because of the talkback show, right. The host would ask, so what do you do in your spare time? And it would always come up. I write poultry, I paint, I sing, I perform, I’m a dancer. And they were blown away over about a year of asking these people, they were just blown away how predictable it was. Going from raised eyebrows. Oh, really? To then going and then themselves going, we expect this, to report it. So it’s fascinating. It’s really fascinating. I think we should be doing some more research into that.

Yeah, that’s really interesting, because I never thought about that. But all my life, I’ve done fine arts and performing arts. I sculpt, I paint. I used to do Silver Smithing, talk back – ah not talk back, voiceover. And now I do the podcast. So, yeah, it’s really interesting. It’s very interesting. And actually, until you mentioned that, I hadn’t actually given that a lot of thought.

Someone who picked it up very early on was John Spencer from BUFORA, the British UFO organization. Which I think they closed their doors a few years ago? And he wrote a book called Gifts of the Gods. And in there he spoke, now that’s going back. Oh, gosh, I can’t even remember the date of it? But, it’s going back quite a while. And he was the first person, I think, who published about it. About that phenomenon.

Yes. And isn’t it interesting how since the governments have been drip feeding people the past two, or three, or four years and the media has now changed the way that the reporting UFO encounter, especially since the US military came out and said, yes, these things are real. We don’t know what they are.  Although that report was a bit of a whitewash, but we knew it was going to be that wasn’t anything unexpected. But, the fact that more pilots, not just military pilots. In fact, I saw a report just the other day of a couple of pilots, and I can’t remember where it was reported seeing a UFO during their routine flight recently. Only in the past maybe months.


And I find it’s quite interesting how, of course, public is being manipulated. So the opinion is slowly changing. But, it’s really great that people are now more open and at least willing to entertain the prospect of life outside of this reality as we know it.

Yes. I think that DNI report was underestimated by a lot of UFO interested people, because even though, what was it, nine pages or something? And it would have been nice to have all the classified material being released to the public. But one of the things that I like to point out to people was remember in there, there was a statement that said 143 pilots out of 144 could not identify UFOs. Never underestimate that. And I think that that report when it came out, it wasn’t so much about. I mean, there were a couple of little gems in there that you could easily skip over. It was designed to do something, not be something. I think it’s designed to offer leverage off down the track.

Times. That’s not interesting times. I mean, I know certainly over my lifetime and I’m sixty-five now. I’ve seen a vast difference in people’s acceptance.

Yes. And even some scientists. What about Michio Kaku? Yes. He flipped around and he said it’s no longer the public’s –  no longer researches responsibility to prove that UFOs exist. It’s now the responsibility for the government to prove that they don’t.

Yeah, that’s really great! That was.  He’s quite an interesting chap to talk to. Sheryl. What got you into the UFO side of it? Are you an experiencer yourself?

I have I’ve had about seven UFO sightings, which are quite credible, but I’ve also had a close encounter. I’ve only had one close encounter, which is very strange. I mean, not very strange, but it’s nothing like some people who have it their whole life at all. My experience happened in around ninety – ninety-one. And I was in bed and with my ex-husband. And we were asleep. And I woke up. And I don’t know why I woke up. It was in the early hours of the morning, and I woke up to see these three small rays standing beside the bed. Now, here’s a question for you. Why are there always three?

I was just going to say that they always come in three, don’t they? I’ve never seen them in less than three.

I don’t know what that’s about. Another predictable part of most encounter reports. But anyway, so like I said, it was in the early hours of the morning, it was still dark and they were standing there and they were just looking at me. Not moving, just staring. And the outside street light was shining in the bedroom window, and I was on the window side so I could see the silhouettes of them standing there. Except, I do have a memory of their eyes. I’m not really sure how I could see that because they were shadowy. But anyway, I do have a memory and I was frightened. I have to tell you, I was terrified because I was wide awake.

Before that. I had spoken to I had started that was ninety-nine. I’ve got involved in eighty-eight, and I just jumped in boots and all that I was talking to people who had close encounters. Abductions were really high in those days. So, for probably for about three years, I’ve been talking to people who talked about how terrified they were. Well, I got a real taste of it that night, but I did a very strange thing. I pulled the sheet up over my head and I started spontaneously saying the Lord’s Prayer, and I’ve heard of a few people since then who did something similar, but I didn’t, it was not conscious. It was just an automatic response. And like I said to a few people, I didn’t even know I still knew it because I learned it in Sunday school and forgotten it. And then the next morning I woke up. I had no memory until about lunchtime or just after lunch, and something triggered the memory of the night before. And I went, wow, that happened last night.

So there’s a few questions around the whole experience. Who goes to sleep terrified with your heart beating out of your chest? And it was instantaneous. As soon as I pulled that sheet up, that was it, my last memory. It was mixing this morning. So, yeah, there’s a gap there, and I sort of left it aside, because, in ninety-eight, I think Bud Hopkins was here in Australia, and I flew down to Sydney to a conference where he was speaking with Leslie. Leslie King was with him at the time, and he set up on the stage. And he was saying exactly these things that I was saying to you, that there’s the people going on the healing path or the creative aspect.

Right. And I’m going, well, tick, tick, tick, ticking all my boxes of things that I had discovered. But he did say, you know what if you because hypnotherapy was a way of dealing with memory recall at those times, a lot of people were having it. And I happen to be a clinical hypnotherapist myself. But, he did say if your life is going smoothly and you’re getting on with things, you’re coping with your experiences. He suggested that people don’t dig around in their unconscious, because, they may not like more of what you find.

So basically, he said, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And I sort of felt that was really grounded advice. Because, I do know some people who had hypnotherapy. And for memory recall. And one you can’t guarantee that the memory recall is accurate, because that’s not how the unconscious mind works. Once you go into the altered state of consciousness, your creative aspect just completely unfurl. The unconscious doesn’t like gaps, so it tends to fill in pieces between clusters of memory. And so, I’ve never dug around in my own mind to find out what happened. Because, I know that these things happen. I know that people have experiences. I just don’t feel the need. A lot of people have said, Why don’t you I don’t feel the need.

Yeah, yeah.  I’m always of the attitude that if you’re meant to know, then that memory will return. Like, an example that I had was when I was young, maybe five, four, five, six. Somewhere between those ages. We had an experience where a UFO came down over our house and in the middle of the day, it was morning. Sorry, it was morning. It was ten o’clock in the morning.

The workers in the factory across the road from where I lived, were all outside having their coffee. So they saw it! It made this huge, whirring noise which brought my mum outside. And it was there, and then it took off. And then, we had a Men in Black visit the next morning from the Men in Black. And that was all I recall, at that stage. And then, it was probably in my thirties, I, somebody, I can’t remember what triggered the memory. But I remember this blue beam coming out of the UFO taking me up, and I had a face to face encounter with these beings.

And they said to me, you won’t remember this now. But, when you need this memory, it will return to you. And it did! And I believe that it’s the same for any experiencer. If you mean to have that memory, if it’s important to you, for whatever reason, then it will be there for you when you need it.

And I think that the timing of the memory returning is significant, too.

Yes, absolutely.

And it reminds me of the Tibetan Terma tradition. The Tibetan term is spelled T-E-R-M-A. If anyone who wants to look it up is that there are two types of termas. One is physical. So you might have a master who creates a physical object, an artifact, and then buries it for it to be –  and it may have inscriptions on it. And it is not for the time that they are in, it’s for the time when it’s dug up.  To  have a hidden purpose, for when the time that it’s dug up.

But, they can also happen in your consciousness. So they can implant information into their initiate’s mind that can stay there. You know, be latent in their mind, not only to be awakened later on in this life, but sometimes in future lives too. So the information becomes available to that person at a time when they can make the most use of it. And it will be significant in their existence. And it’s a bit like shamanic experiences. The shamans talk about, the shamans are born with the seeds of that within them. And at a certain time it is activated within them to be called for their vacation.

And it is at the right time for that individual, and something will happen. And close encounter experiences. I do liken them to shamanic initiation experiences because it is an awakening for people. And the more that they go down that path, the more they are living their vocation, they’re doing their Dharma. They’re doing what they came here to do. Like you’re doing this now it’s part of you, and it’s your essence playing out in the world. You know, and you’re doing many things. But this is how it’s presenting itself into the world stage, basically.

And this is what happens with people who report close encounters. I remember I spoke to a lot of abductees in the nineties. I mean, I had no life then! I often say that because I just spent the nineteen-nineties on the phone! And there weren’t too many people around in those days.  Well, there’s less UFO groups around now. But, there are more Facebook pages where people can have chats with people like that, and process their experiences. But, in those days it wasn’t and people would ring up and they’d often be traumatized by their experiences, because, our culture doesn’t support those types of experience. No cultural context for them whatsoever, no acceptance of them whatsoever in those days, except just in the UFO community.

Although, there were a lot of documentaries that were being made at that time. So they were struggling. And what they would struggle with was the loss of who they were, their identity before their experiences. They wanted to go back. I say, sorry, that’s not going to happen. This has happened. You have to integrate it. And I’d say, these experiences change people. But, the clue to surviving them, if you want to put it that way or to integrating them, is to let them change you, to be more of who you are. To potentiate you in the world so that you then go on and be, and live, and walk the life that these experiences have created for you.

Absolutely. I one hundred percent agree with it. You can never go back. Well, for me personally, it’s been my life. My entire life it’s much part of my life as breathing. It does, it alters you. And I know that I’m doing part of the work that I agreed to do and speaking. I’ve never been shy about speaking about my UFO experiences, even as a child, to my detriment, because people weren’t ready to hear back in. But it didn’t stop me from speaking. And I know this is partly because of the training I received. And because it’s part of who I am, it’s part of my soul essence. And it does alter your life. And for people who, up until the point that they have their experience, are just going about the normal day to day reality.  Perhaps not even questioning other paradigms, other ways of being. Or, knowing of other existence other than this one, it’s life shattering. And it’s life re-affirming in a lot of ways.

So for people, it can be incredibly traumatic. And that’s one of the reasons I started my Facebook group. I have a Facebook group that has – it’s not a large group. It has over six-thousand members, but I started it so it would be a place for people who could talk about not only UFOs, but other paranormal experiences, they had in a safe place. A safe environment where they wouldn’t be judged, where they could speak freely without fear of being ridiculed. Because, that’s so important because they are shattered, they don’t know –  their view of reality is completely gone, and they have to readjust their whole paradigm of being, pretty much.

Yeah. And then they have a role to play.


And that’s the next step. They work on themselves. In a shamanic initiation, you’re dragged off by the spirits. Right. In a classic initiation experience, you’re dragged off by the spirits. You are dismembered dismantled, and then you have all these experiences in that stage, and then you are put back together. But, you are put back together because when you’re dismantled, you become the hollow bone, what the shamans call the hollow bone. There’s nothing left. I teach shamanic practices, and I’ve been through some really interesting and very difficult dismemberment journeys.

I am bashed into the ground, dragged over waterfalls, drowned strips of flesh pulled off and oh. But, what happens is you then rebuild yourself and you rebuild yourself from the inside out. Whereas before many of us, our identity is formed from the outside in, based on other people’s expectations, social expectations, cultural expectations. So we become more authentic. We live a more authentic life. And that’s the first step. The next step is then, finding a place for your authenticity in the world. Because we can’t be like a Monk living on a mountain in Tibet.

We live in the Western world. Right.

We then have to find a way that we can take what we’ve become and put it into the world. And that’s where a lot of people go from the Left-Brain jobs, some of them corporate over to the healing fields, or the creative fields.  Because, those things are accepted in our society, and that’s where they can find a place to belong. And the value of belonging in a society can never be underestimated.

Absolutely. And people, once they manage to do their integration and move on, then they make huge differences to people around them, to the community, to raising the energetic level of everybody around them. And they don’t even have to say anything. It doesn’t have to be a . . .  It’s just the energies that level that it automatically goes out to those around them and has that effect on them.

Well, we can identify some celebrities who have had close encounters or UFO sightings, and then they’ve come out and they’ve spoken about that. Was it John Lennon, who wrote the book about The Eggman, which was about an alien, about seeing UFOs. But, there are other celebrities who sometimes – this is why I really got interested in one aspect of close encounter experiences was, being on the end of a telephone line in years gone by. And waiting for people to report to us. I was thinking, how can I find them?

Knowing what I know what I knew then about the types, the demographics of these people, where would I find them? Well, guess what? I’d probably see them on the big screen. I’d see them on stage, singing to people. I would see them in the performing arts. I would see some artists. And here in Australia, Prohart who has passed away. He was well known Australian artist. Well, guess what? He did this painting of an Australian Outback scene, with a UFO in it. So you can predict who’s probably had some sort of close encounter. Or, at least, had some UFO sightings.

One of them, I think I could predict, would be Jackie Chan. He actually sings, he directs, he produces, he acts. He’s highly creative person. He’s in the martial arts. He’s got to have had seen UFOs or had some sort of close encounter, but you’d never know it. He wouldn’t talk about it. People in those situations. So, I think for listeners, if you think about the types of people that you know, even in your own countries, who we have celebrities like here in Australia, Olivia Newton John had UFO sightings. What’s his name? I can’t think of his name at the moment, but other Australian personalities. And there would be some in New Zealand because of their creative background, you can bet they’ve had some type of event.

Yeah, absolutely. Or at the very least, some type of spiritual event. That’s opened the door for them. That’s so interesting. Of all the people you’ve interviewed in your role in the UFO field, what is the biggest thing that you’ve come away with.

Ah yes, that question! I think it would have to be when I got involved. I was asking the questions, who are they? Where are they from? And why are they here? But it very quickly went to who am I? Where am I from? And why am I here?

That’s interesting.

Yeah. So I think for me, the UFO subject, which I’ve inhabited, the only word I can describe it is inhabited for decades, is the greatest tool for personal and spiritual development that I have ever explored. For me, it’s bigger, larger than the afterlife. It encompasses that. It encompasses shamanism. It encompasses healing. It encompasses science, it encompasses data. It’s everything, you know, everything is in the subject. So I think anyone looking for something to explore. You can’t go wrong with this subject.

Yeah. It opens so many doors. It, ah . . . it leads – It creates many questions. And that leads to more questions. And that leads to more knowing. It’s a very, very interesting, A very interesting topic. One of my, well my favourite Star person. He said to me once, and it’s words that I’ve tried to live by ever since he said it to me. It made such an impact on me. He said to me; “Marianne, whenever you do anything, you must do it from your heart. When you think, think from your heart. When you speak, speak from your heart. When you act from your heart.” And those are really, really wise. Of course, it’s not easy to do because you’re human and people can get under your skin and you can get annoyed and angry. But its, what he’s talking about is a total way of living and a total way of being. And it’s a spiritual thing as much as a physical thing.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. And it’ll take you on a path that you would not even know if you let it. You would never have known that path existed unless you let the subject take you along it. And it’s taken me down some really interesting paths. At one stage, I bought a property and opened a New age center and ran where we ran yoga classes, Tai Chi classes, workshops on numerology. We used to have healing days and psychic fairs. This is like going back in. I bought that property in ninety-five. So there were things I was doing there that weren’t being done in Brisbane. But I’ve often wondered, how did my experiences? You know, they did propel me. They played a part in going down that path very much so.

Yeah, I can totally relate to that because it was my experiences that lead me into the nursing path to begin with, because I wanted to make a difference, a positive difference in people’s lives.

Yes. And it’s not always easy trying to navigate these paths. Because, at one stage I  sort of came to a point in my life and I wondered, this is about ten years ago. And I asked myself, why am I so interested in the UFO subject? What draws me to it? And why am I just as interested in the afterlife experiences and all that? And I was taken down a path. And this is why it’s important with those questions out there. I was taken down a path that led me to shamanism.

And that was where I did some incredible journeys. And one of them, the shamanic journey. And one of them was where I was shown –  because everything’s symbolic in a journey. And I was shown a desert area in Australia with just some, like mud hills in the background. But there was a group of Aboriginal people around a fire having a corroborie. There was one Aboriginal elder off to the side. He was standing there with a walking stick and just looking at me. And it’s all done in silence.

And he opens one arm and he sort of unfolds it in front of him, as if like a hug. And then he put points up and I look up above the fire where the corroborie is. And there’s a spaceship. And the message was, it’s always been like this. It’s always been like this. So, what I got out of that was that Indigenous people have for a long time understood that first of all, that these interactions have been going on a long time.

Yes. Absolutely.

We do know in history that certain practices, the locations for them were set where Ley lines cross. So their locations are particular, for these types of things to happen. So, there are ceremonies and certain locations where these ceremonies are held. And at that time it possibly opens up a portal of, through consciousness, for these interactions to take place. And I think we’ve seen that over, and over, and over again.

And I have a friend who was a long time top circle researcher when she lived in the UK for twenty-seven years. She’s now moved back to Australia, and she was very interested in dowsing. And she was doing dowsing. I think it was Richard Hall, who’s also passed away now. He was well known in the UK for dowsing, and he told her basically everything he knew. And they would dowse for the landlines that would go through their sacred sites, but also through the crop circles. And where t they would be found, where crop circles crossed. And they could also dowels and find what she call Whirlies, where the energy would be in a spiral pattern, and it would be going up into the air like a gusher, energy would be coming out.

And she said, these Ley lines they would fly over the crop circles at various times and they could dowse in the air as they were going over the crop circles and the rods would open, or crisscross. Depending on whether they were over crop circle or not. So these energy fountains go way up into the atmosphere. And who knows, perhaps they create a grid in the atmosphere. And perhaps this is a grid that some UFOs follows. So it’s all there. We just have to put the pieces together.

That reminds me of that book by Bruce Cathie and the Harmonic Grid. Do you remember that? Yeah. He was way ahead of his time.  For listeners, Bruce Cathie was a New Zealand pilot who did a lot of research. In sort of – Well, I don’t really know how to explain it. In the harmonic grids around the planet. And he came to all this through mathematics, I believe. So he didn’t approach it from a spiritual angle. It was purely from a scientific angle, but it’s a very interesting book. I believe it’s called Harmonic Grid?

Harmonic thirty-three. I think it is.

Harmonic thirty-three. Yes! That’s it. And it came out in the seventies, maybe? Or, a bit later. I’m not sure, but it was kind of underestimated at the time. And then it came back into popularity again, when more information about UFOs and stuff like that came out, from other sources. And then, his work was looked at again. But, I think he was pretty on to it.

I think he’s passed away now.

Yes he has. He  died some time ago.

Yeah. Because we were trying to get him out to Australia to speak at one of our conferences, but he wasn’t, wasn’t well, I think.

Yeah. He’s a very interesting chap. So where do you see yourself going now?

Well, you know, probably on the same path.  But, I’m sure there’ll be different curves in the road. Because UFO reports, there’s less of them now, that we get here at UFO Research, Queensland. But I don’t know, we’re sort of at a crossroads just on the UFO subject. We’re sort of at a crossroads where we’ve gathered all this information. I mean, how long do we keep gathering data? How long do we keep gathering it. But I think what’s happened since two thousand and seventeen, when Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie King had that article published in The New York Times, and Washington Post. And everything that’s happened since then, with the footage that has come out. And now the ATIP report, you know, saying that they’re not ours. And the Chinese are saying they’re not ours or they’re not Russian. Whose are they?

And then we’ve got these US Navy pilots who are saying we’re seeing UFOs on a daily basis. I mean, things have hotted up. I never would have predicted that, that would have become more mainstream, as mainstream as it has. It was just even five years ago. I couldn’t have predicted that. So, I think it’s where now –  I think it’s more about where the data takes us. And what we do with that.  What we can do with it? How we can use that to leverage governments to come out and talk about this? Although that’s probably not going to happen, until it’s actually an issue on some ballot paper somewhere, you know. But, I think the ball is in play, and we just have to wait and see what happens.

It’s really interesting. Back in the eighties, one of my star people said to me, he said, Marianne, I said, what about the release of the information that the government sold about you guys? And he said to me back in the eighties, he said, Marianne, we’ve given governments an ultimation. I’m just paraphrasing here. They have to release the information of this to humanity as a whole so people can make their own minds up. They can find their own spiritual path. If they do not release it. We have told them we will take that matter out of their hands. And we will step in.

I don’t know how that would play out, because I imagine that. And let’s face it, I’m a Trekkie.

Yeah, me too. I think most experiences are to a degree or another, to be honest.

So I’m going to draw a little bit on Star Trek from my understanding. But, having said that, some of it I believe Jean Roddenberry was seeing a medium at the time, Phyllis Schlemmer. And that’s where he got a lot of his ideas for the show from who knows where she was getting the information from?

I asked. I asked my star people. I said with programs like Star Trek and these other science fiction shows that are around. How much information have you guys actually given to people, in terms of planting seeds in their minds? And he said, We’ve given a lot of information.

Yeah, I think so. They were spot on in a lot of ways. They cover the abduction experiences. However, I was going to talk about first contact. About . . .

Oh right!

I don’t know what terrestrials would do to take it out of the hand of Earth governments, to make themselves known. I think they would have had a lot of experience with those contact events in the past. And they probably have formed their own policies and procedures. Practices in how to deal with that. What they are? I haven’t got a clue. I doubt it would be them showing up in loads in our skies. I think that would just be too much for humanity. And I don’t think that they’re about that about creating harm.

No, they’re not

In human affairs. So I think that they’d be very careful about how they did it, but they may and I do believe that. Like you say that they’re passing on information to people in ways that are not giving them a document. They’re giving them ideas. They are prompting people and to go down certain paths.

I interviewed a chap last season and the episode was called The Incident at Alloway’s Creek. The Alloway’s Creek Incident Now, this guy was a kid, four years old when a UFO crashed in the swamps behind where he, his mum lived. And his aunt lived in a house next door, way out in the wops and the UFO crashed. It was near a nuclear plant, actually, and they saw it crash. It was actually shot down. They saw the steam of light come down, hit the UFO and it imploded. He said it imploded. And he talks about how the government, the military were there within twenty minutes, at their farm. They had the site cleaned out, in the dark, within two hours. And they threatened his mum, who was a single mother. And they said to her, if you tell anyone about this, we’ll take your son away from you. And so, for years she was forced to keep. – But his mum died about a year ago. So now he’s speaking out because there’s nothing, no threat they can place over her. So he’s speaking out about it.

And we talked about this, about what you and I have just talked about. And he said, you know, we are the disclosure. Us experiencers are the disclosure, and more and more of us are going to speak out about it. And I guess in a way, that’s what I’m doing with my podcast. That’s what you’re doing with your work. So, really, I kind of tend to feel that it will come through more and more people speaking out. Nore and more people accepting. And I think it’s going to come that way, rather than from governments, because governments will never tell you the truth.

No, they’re going to want to control that narrative. And I think that there’s a real move on at the moment for them to sort of whitewash anything that happened before the Nimitz encounter with the Tic Tac, and they’re going to try and establish that, oh, this is happening now. They’ll never be able to lie about what’s happened in the past. But, that is why it is so important that people, like yourself, have podcasts and have platforms for people to speak about this. Because, that can gain momentum. Like you say that disclosure, that grassroots disclosure is the way to go. And people always forget that people power is far stronger than governmental power, or even media power. People power will always win. Sometimes it just takes a while to catch on.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, this was back in the eighties, they told me this. And since then, I’ve seen a steady increase in people coming forward. Ah, people not being so shy about speaking out, despite the ridicule. And now, I can talk to people now and they don’t laugh to my face any more, like they would previously. Because, people are more expecting and certainly with everything that’s happening around the world, it’s making people pause and think and consider other alternatives.

Yes. Yes. Exactly. And I think when you have people like Mitchio Kaku speaking out now, we’ve got Avi Loeb. The Galileo Project is looking for extra-terrestrial artifacts in the solar system and beyond. And now there are UFO researchers who are getting on board with the Galileo Project. We’ve got Lou Elizondo who’s joined them. Chris Mellon. Intelligence people – ah ex-intelligence, who’ve joined them. There’s a lot happening.

There is a lot happening now. Professor Avi Loeb, he’s the only one I’ve ever been nervous about speaking to. Because,  you know, he’s such a scientific brain. Actually, when I heard about him, I thought, oh, I’d really love to speak to this chat. He’s so cold. So, how can I get in touch with him? So I just looked up his Harvard University address and emailed him, and he came on my show. He was lovely, lovely chap, so easy to talk to. So brave, considering his standing in the community. And all the scientific accolades that this man has, to come out and say, Oumuamua was an extra-terrestrial object, not a naturally occurring object. And the scientific explanations as to why.

Yeah. I think that’s a very interesting artifact. And I’m glad to see that the Galileo project is steaming ahead. And the people who are getting on board with that and UFO researchers, too, they’ve joined like, wow! You know, this is a first, scientists and UFO researchers working together.

Yeah. It’s pretty amazing, isn’t it? It’s exciting times we live in. I say that quite often it’s exciting times we live in. I’m getting goosebumps. I believe that despite all the fear porn that’s been put out into the world at the moment about numerous different things, it’s exciting times because we, as a humanity, are moving forward as a whole.

Yeah. It’s interesting how people are facing fears at the moment. You know, having to face fears at the moment. Put it that way. And yet, we have these things in the background, these big movements in the background happening. And for these changes over the last three years in the UFO field, that’s phenomenal. People should never underestimate that. That is phenomenal! And I think that I know that they’re behind the scenes, too. There are astronomers who are taking an interest in this, too. And there’s moves in that field behind Avi Loeb, where they’re going, what this? What’s these UFOs?  What’s that all about? What’s happening?

They want to know. Before they’d  just wipe, wash it and say, we don’t want to know about that. Talk to the hand. Basically, don’t tell us about that. You’re all idiots. Not anymore. And for a long time, I’ve said to people, Well, if you think that I’m a bit of a fool for taking on board the UFO subject and accepting it as real. Then I’m glad, because, I’m sharing that space with astronauts, intelligent people who’ve been out in space. Some of them have said that they’ve seen things, that there were things following them in their missions. So I don’t care what you think, because ,you know actually, I don’t think you’ve done your homework. Basically.

Interesting that you say three years ago, I’m going to go back to that. Back in the eighties again. I said, what’s going to happen? And we talked about the Earth and Earth changes. You know, that a lot of experiencers talk about. About the need for looking after the Earth and protecting her. And environmental tragedies that could occur. And he said to me, Marianne, and he said, What’s happening is currently the Earth’s being held in position like a baby. And he did this like you’re rocking a baby with your hands.

And he said, We’re waiting till a certain percentage of humanity has reached a level of spiritual awakening. Then the energies will change and things will move forward very fast. Well, three years ago, that point was reached. And I felt the change, I literally felt the change in energy. That a certain percentage of humanity was –  When I say awake, they were questioning the status quo. They were questioning. They were finding their spiritual path. They were questioning the beliefs and the teachings that they had been taught for eons. They were questioning, why do things have to be like this? Why? Why? And I felt the energy shift. I literally felt it in my body. And as soon as I felt it, I made a post in my group saying, this has just happened now, from this watch, this is going to happen, and this is going to happen. And this is going to happen. And you’re going to see more people standing up and speaking out. And then the MeToo movement started. Then all other movements started. And since then, there’s been a massive change in humanity.

Yes, there has. And I guess this is the only upside of the pandemic, is that people had to stop and face themselves. Re-evaluate their lives, re-evaluate what they think they know. And it’s like we had a planetary near death experience. Everything that you and I have been talking about how people are changed by their experiences. It happened to humanity on a global level. And since then, how many, how many podcasts have come out like, wow, hundreds. And that’s another creative expression of that experience. You know, talking about UFOs, talking about the environment, talking about spiritual education, the afterlife, everything. It’s like there’s an explosion of people wanting to share and communicate. I mean, that’s just one thing that I’ve seen, right? And there’s a lot of other things happening that aren’t so much in your face. But, wow! So it’s a bit like we’re in the Renaissance. We’re looking at different ways to do things. In a more progressive, useful, harmonious, creative way.

And people are looking more at looking after the planet and recognizing that she’s a living entity as well. And she has to go through her own growth and development.

Yes, exactly.

And we’re not separate from her as she goes through her growing pains. We feel it. And she feels what we go through as well. It’s a symbiotic relationship.

Yeah. It’s a very complex experience that we’ve all gone through. And I’m just relating this as a planetary near death experience for people.  Individuals who have these types of experience. What they go through. What the planet has gone through, is what individuals go through, where they go. Okay. Who am I now? What’s really important to me? What do I want to do with my life now? You know, we’re seeing this great shift in culturally, socially, economically, governmentally.

And I mean, you might have been hearing about the great resignation that’s supposed to happen, in Australia in March twenty-twenty-two. And it started in China, where young people are saying, hey, guess what?  I don’t want to go into debt for the rest of my life and work to pay off a mortgage or to do things. I want to have a simpler life. I want to have a life choosing to have less material goods in their life. That was the first article I saw come out a few months ago about that. But the state in China, they didn’t like that. They want you to be part of the system. But the young people were saying, no, thank you. Then there was another article I saw about a month ago from another country.

And then there was one written not too long ago about the great resignation is going to hit Australia in March twenty-twenty-two, and the tables are going to be turned. And employers are going to have to market their jobs. The tables will be turned. We don’t have to market ourselves to employers. The employers have to market the work. Because, people are making different choices. They’re deciding to do what they love! Start a business, doing what they love. And this is exactly what happens to people who have close encounters and near death experiences. And all sorts of experiences, where they re-evaluate and choose a lifestyle, which is where the outer world, the outer world is much more aligned with their inner world.

Yeah, yeah. Isn’t it exciting?

It is very exciting. I’m interested to see where we’re going to be in another three or four years.

Oh, yes. Like, when covid first started, I put out a mini podcast called The End Game. And in it I talked a little bit about conspiracy. Not much, because this podcast isn’t a conspiracy podcast. But, I put out more about social manipulation and how the CIA termed the phrase conspiracy theory, as a way of discrediting people who question the status quo. And how it was socially manipulated to be a bad thing, when actually people are just questioning. And these days the difference – here in New Zealand. Anyway, I can’t speak for you in the States, but here in New Zealand, the difference between the thing being a conspiracy theory and effect seems to be about six months in New Zealand at the moment.

Yeah, exactly. And it’s been like that here, too, in Australia, I think, actually, Russell Brand said that? The difference between a conspiracy theory. And a factor is six months.

I like Russell Brand. He’s really cool. I find him an incredibly wise person in a lot of ways, very deep. And his experiences certainly show. I know he’s a figure that polarizes people for sure. My understanding is a little bit different to a lot of experiencers on what’s happening. And so, what I said basically was, too people, I said, don’t buy into the fear that’s been put out into the public. That’s deliberately being manipulated. Because, the fear’s being used to control you. And try and see past your fear.

If you’re fearful about hearing about covid, or whatever situation, go outside, ground yourself. Take your shoes off walking nature, hug a tree, go and find somebody in your neighbourhood who could use some help. That single mom down the road. Is she okay? Is there anything you can do to help her? That old person who lives next to you? Maybe they just need somebody to say, hi.  Look what you can to see what you can do in your neighbourhood to help those who are struggling. And then that will help you get out of that fear state.

Yeah. Just touching on the point of fear and going back to the UFO subject. I think that let me start, let me just preface this and let’s say that I’m forever grateful for Steven Greer with the Disclosure project. And bringing those witnesses forward. And the press conference that was held at the Washington Press Club.

That was great.

I think he did the UFO community a service there. And from then on, I’ve been able to talk about that,  whenever I speak at community groups and library groups and wherever, I can always quote that. And I will be forever grateful for him bringing those very credible witnesses forward. However, I do not agree with him that all extra-terrestrials are benign.

Oh no! No, absolutely. I’m sorry, sorry . . .

No, you’re all right.

I’m totally with you on that. In fact, that’s what I was going to go into before, but I didn’t. My knowing, is that there’s three groups. There’s those that are benign and benevolent towards humans. Want to help humans develop their full potential and become a part of the greater intergalactic community. There are those who made an agreement with the US government, who are not benevolent. Who do not have humanity’s best interests at heart, and in fact, could care less about humanity. We’re just cattle to them. They don’t care about us at all. Then the third group are neutrals. They just watch and observe, don’t participate either way, that’s my knowing, for what it’s worth.

I agree, I do think that there are observers that perhaps they are actually observing from a distance. Or they’re actually inhabitants here on Earth that have been here long before humanity. And they’re always watching on what we’re doing. And perhaps they’re in-Earth dwellers. I don’t know. That’s just a, that’s just a guess. So, they’re residents, basically. Then I think that there are some that are a threat, that they see the resources on the planet. And I’m not just talking about minerals or water, but the DNA, all life forms.

Human energy, as well, yep.

I’ve often thought is there a cosmic black market out there? That gathers DNA and then trades it out there in the market? That’s a possibility. And then there are those who probably sit on the fence, and they’re just opportunistic.

Yes. Absolutely.

If it’s opportune to support these humans, we will. Or if it’s opportune to utilize some of the things that they have, then we will. And of course, there are benefic types, who are interested in humanity. They may just be a scientist? They may be researchers? Like we would do on other planets, and they don’t intend to harm us. They just happen to be here studying. But maybe accidents happen sometimes. I don’t know?

Those ones that you mentioned are opportunistics. I include those in the malevolent group because they are, by nature, opportunistic. I include those in there. But yes, you’re right. Pretty much there are four groups.

The other thing I was going to say, is that I found that people who report close encounters, and I always say it like that. I don’t say abductees or contactees. I just say people who report close encounters, because that’s what they’re doing. They’re socially conscious. So, they’re probably the first to criticize their own government, their own society, the social strata, the things that are wrong on the planet, you know?  And in, nineteen-ninety-one, I think it was? The report came out –  the Rover report, and in there they found that experiencers were what they call the trend setters. Rather than the trend followers. And they get involved in committees. They’re the letter writers. They’re the people that ring up on talkback shows and give their opinion. And they’re not so backward in being forward, or they grow into that person. They become quite outspoken. And that’s what we need. And maybe,  it’s like changing society from the inside out.

Bingo! And, and that – Sorry to interrupt you Sheryl, but that brings me onto the subject of Starseeds. Now, I know from my personal, I know that I came here deliberately to do a work.  The group of beings that I work with, they have the prime directive. You cannot interfere, to use that Star Trek term.  You cannot interfere with a developing society from the outside. But, if you have people on the ground, in those physical bodies, then you can effect change from the inside out. And that’s what we do. And I know that I chose to come here to do this. I’ve been consciously aware of that, since I was a child. And many who, who report encounters are. They may not remember that specifically, but they all know that they have a work to do, a very important work to do.

Yes. And they’re peppered throughout society.

Yes. Absolutely

And that’s how you change civilization from the inside out, through awareness, through consciousness, whether in different cultures, different countries. It doesn’t matter. And I think, that I’ve always found it really interesting, that people who report closing counters change in a particular direction. So, for example, they might be like a Delta of a river. There may be many tributaries coming together, but then, they do. And then, they form the river. So experiencers change in that particular direction. And I’ve asked myself, Why, why didn’t they change in another way? Why didn’t they become Council workers and fix roads or that sort of thing? Maybe some do. But why are we seeing a big movement towards that? Like, why is there this demographic and it has purpose. It has purpose. To have a role in our civilization.

Absolutely. Sheryl, one thing I’ve noticed over the past two years in my group. Is that I’m getting a lot of young mums with children and around the age two saying my baby seeing spirits. And  they’re having this and having that so many started having, like, thirty or forty within the space of a few weeks. And my group mum’s coming. I’m desperate for help. They came to my group because my mom’s group suggested that they come and talk to me.

And these young children, who are the latest generations of star seeds, have been woken really early. When I say being woken, their spiritual abilities have been enhanced really early. Whereas before they would have not started doing that until they were in their late teens, or early twenties. But it’s been consistent. And in fact, today, I’ve just had three mums on my group with exactly the same thing happening to their little two year olds. And it always starts between the ages of two and three.

Yeah. Well, that’s something that I also noticed, too, with people who reported close encounters. That again, like Kathleen Martin told you. You know, the first time is around three years of age. The next time might be seven, but it’s usually early teen years. And then it’s later on in the late twenties, or early thirties. And if they basically haven’t got it by then, then I don’t know what’s happening? But what I mean is, then they sort of have a major wake up experience. And then they can look back and go, okay.

This has happened in my life around these ages, and I found that was just again predictable. Yeah. So I’m not sure why three years old. I could certainly understand seven because we come to an age of reason. I think at seven years old, where we have that full self-awareness. And we’re sort of formed,  formed in our identity by age seven. And then in our early ten years. Well, I think what was her name? Betty Luca, I think out of the Andreas and affair. Betty Andrea remember her like that? She had an experience at that age and she was told

Sorry, she had a visitation and they said We’re not coming for you yet, but we will come later, but they made themselves known to her. I think it was eighteen. You’re not ready yet, but we’ll be back basically. But that’s not uncommon at all. And then they come back later, often when women can actually conceive, or have conceived. So, there’s a few things going on there by different groups of different groups.

Yes, because of course not everybody’s experiences are the same. But, I think for these little two year olds, I think what is happening is they’re turning their switches on their psychic switches on, to prepare them. I find it so interesting that it’s been the past couple of years that this has happened. Like, I’ve had my group going for over three years now, and it’s only – I can always tell when there’s a shift in the general energy around the world, because I get heats of people joining at once, like one hundred people, two hundred people joining on one day, and I can always tell. So, it’s very interesting that they are doing this now and that they’re waking these youngsters, preparing these youngsters so early, whereas before they had more time. And that just makes me set my intuition off knowing that something major is going to happen very soon.

I wonder if it’s something to do with what’s been happening on Earth with this pandemic, because you mentioned the last three years. Yeah, I do wonder about that.

Yeah, I’m sure it’s all connected. Although my intuition about the pandemic, is certainly it’s very real, but it was deliberately released. And it was deliberately released as a means of control by the others who don’t want to give up the control that they have over the planet at the moment. It’s this battle that’s still going on.

Well, I guess it depends what’s happening with those young children when they have, they’re having –  Because, we’re all switched on at certain times when our revolution requires it. So perhaps they’ll being switched on early because as they get a little bit older, Internet teens and twenty, and of course, we’ll have the Corona teens. Maybe, those, that particular awareness of those children may be very necessary.

That’s exactly what I’m thinking. That’s my thought, too, turning them on so much younger because they need them to be ready at a specific stage. And whether that from five years-time, three years-time, two years-time, who knows, four year olds can say the most amazing boys. Wonderful things.

I also think that we should remember that we are connected to Earth and Earth has her own consciousness. Perhaps some of the switching on that we’re seeing is actually because of what’s happening to Earth. And, it’s like a sympathetic resonance.

It’s all interconnected. It’s all interconnected. You can’t disconnect this from the star people, from the Earth. And it’s all interconnected, and it’s all working towards the same goal, ultimately.

Yes, yes, yes. And it’s a bit like there’s a lot of talk about environmental concerns, too, which a lot of people who have had encounters are also highly concerned about that. Actually, I would say that is their number one worry, the environment. It’s like, when there is a tree that is under stress, it will drop its seeds to make sure that species continues. And I think sometimes that might be what is going on as well


that humans, these children are being activated because they are the seeds for what Earth needs in the future to look after the environment.

Goosebumps!  Whenever I get goosebumps. It’s generally for me, it’s a sign I’m hearing a truth, a spiritual truth. Look, I’ve really enjoyed this conversation with you, and I know that I could probably ask you heaps more questions, but I’m aware of your time. Where can people contact you? Are you on social media?

Absolutely. They can find me on my personal Facebook page. There’s also the Strange Encounters Down Under, Facebook page. UFO Research Queensland Facebook page. There’s a few others, but I won’t even confuse people and they can find me through UFO Research Queensland website as well. Just shoot me a message, ask me questions. I love to talk to people about these subjects. You know, if anyone wants to have me speak to a group, whatever more than happy to do so.

That’s awesome. Sheryl, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today. It’s been really interesting talking to you.

Thank you, Marianne. It’s been a pleasure.

So that was my lovely guest Sheryl Gottschall, from across the ditch in Aussie. I hope you all have enjoyed our conversation and perhaps it may have given you pause for thought. That’s not at all a bad thing. Check out her pages, which are all linked on this episodes page of our website: www.walkingtheshadowlands.com. Next episode I have a special guest who was involved in a famous UFO incident in Bentwaters, US Military base in the UK, whilst she was on active duty. Her story is very interesting. Be sure and subscribe to Walking the Shadowlands, so you don’t miss out.

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