Episode 94: Mela & Bubba The Ghost

Kia ora, hi everyone. Thank you so much for choosing to listen to this episode today.  When I lived in the States, actually in North Carolina. I was busy doing voice over work, and the odd stint as an extra in a few movies. I remember I went to Georgia, to audition for a specific role. Whilst I was there I went on a ghost tours of the city I was in. I remember listening to this chap who was taking the tour and I was thoroughly enthralled with the way he told the history and stories of the supposed haunted homes, or areas of that town.

I remember thinking how wonderful it would be to be able to do a job like that and I asked him at the end, if he personally, had experienced anything paranormal in nature, during any of his tours. It turns out he had, and he shared a couple with me. That encounter really impressed me, and when I started this podcast, I decided that it would be really cool to interview people who do this kind of work. And so in Season Six I did, I spoke with Denny O’Rouke of his experiences in the episode Pirates & Ghosts – Oh My!

In this episode again, I have the opportunity to talk with a wonderful Southern woman, who volunteers in her local museum as a ghost tour guide. But, that is only part of what she does and who she is as we cover many different subjects in this conversation. But the question as always is; Are you ready to walk into this part of the Shadowlands with me and see what we discover? Then let’s begin.

The Rev. Pamela “Mela” Borawski

The Rev. Pamela “Mela” Borawski is a green hedge witch and founder of the Greenwild Tradition. She has studied and practiced spiritual witchcraft for over twenty years, and is an ordained pagan minister and leader in her local community. She is certified in hypnotherapy, and graduated in 2018 with a diploma as an integrative healing arts practitioner.

After graduation, she founded 3 Rays of Light LLC, where she offers hypnosis, healing arts, and spiritual guidance. Mela created the online school, Greenwild Mystical Academy, in 2021, and is the spiritual director of Awen Grove Fellowship. She is the author of the Spell & Ritual Journal and the Manifest with the Moon Journal available on Amazon, as well as a fantasy author on Kindle Vella under the name Mela McClure. Her witchy podcast, Belle, Book & Candle, is available on all major podcast platforms.

Mela has lived in the southern United States for nearly 50 years, and now resides on a family-owned farm in rural South Carolina where she enjoys chickens, goats, and gardening. She has a deep love for celebrating rites of passage, honouring nature and her cycles,

and folk magick practices. She has hosted a monthly interfaith full moon ceremony in the area since early 2019. She is a member of the Sisterhood of Avalon, the Universal Brotherhood Movement, the Energy Medicine Professional Association and the National Association of Transpersonal Hypnotherapists.

I first met Mela, when she interviewed me on her own podcast a year or so ago. I really enjoyed talking with her, so it’s really lovely to have her here with us today. I want to let you all know that this episode is shorter than most have been lately as Mela, is currently recovering from Covid and so I did not wish to keep her too long. My guest Mela Borawski

Mela & Bubba the Ghost

Marianne: Mela, maybe you could tell us a little bit about your background and what got you into the areas of the paranormal and the unexplained.

Mela: Yes, sure. So, I have –  I come from a background of my family coming from the mountains of Georgia in the United States, Appalachian folk, people, not mountain people. And that came with a lot of supernatural stories and just things like that. Ever since I was a child, my grandmother and my mother both told me all these stories and about root doctors and granny witches and slew-foots and all these critters. And terrified me as a child. But I was also having experiences as a child that I did not. My mother was as well.

And so that kind of came through. It went away a little bit when I got involved in evangelical fundamentalist church, when I was young. Which really ended up being very much like an abusive cult. And at that point, a lot of the paranormal experiences I was having with my psychic gifts and all that sort of thing, I was told that I was being influenced by demons. And demons and satanic things were creating these things within me. Which actually carried over into even my twenties. And my husband’s church, telling him to be divorced from me, because of it. And things like that!

Yeah, and that was – by that time I had left that kind of spiritual path and found my own family.  What I thought was way more authentic for me. And a more pagan path. And I am a witch. I’m very much out there in my community as being a witch. But, I live in the Bible Belt. What they call the Bible Belt, the south. And that does not go over all that well with everybody.

No. Definitely not. I remember I lived in North Carolina for a while and I really felt like a lion in a den of Daniels, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. I’m right in the middle of South Carolina, so right in the middle of the Bible Belt.

I was just on the border of North and South Carolinas. And it was pretty like –  Along my street, which was, it was a couple of miles long. But there were like six churches there. Really, yeah. And everybody just assumed that you were  Christian because that’s the prevailing . . . But actually, yeah, that’s very interesting eh? Maybe Mela, we could talk a little bit about some of the – Firstly about some of the things you mentioned earlier about the granny witch thing. You mentioned a couple of things that I haven’t heard. Ah, doc, something doctor.

Root doctor?

I didn’t – Root doctor and slow too, slow to sluff. It is slow tooth?

Slew foot.

Slew foot! Ok, yes.

So root doctors were something that I first heard from my grandmother. And basically it was just another term, I guess, where she grew up of the people who were doing the folk magic up in the mountains. So in some areas they’d be called granny witches. But they would put roots on people. And so if you if you ever look up about roots, it also comes back to the Gullah Geechee people of South Carolina, which were the people who came over as slaves.

They were forced to come here as slaves. And it’s those ancestors that brought a lot of magic as well. And so we have this very interesting culture here in South Carolina of the Gullah people, and they have root doctors as well. But in the mountains, they were also called root doctors. And they put a root or a curse on you. And my grandmother would very often say growing up that she was told that they were going to go get the root doctor. And they were going to put a root on her. Or it would be used as a way of control by the parents. You know? If you don’t behave, I will go and get the root Dr.

Right, right. So a root doctor basically is somebody who practices more darker form of witchcraft?

A lot of people would, will see it that way just because there’s so much talk about different types of magic. But, I see it a little bit different. But yeah, in my grandmother’s time, it would be seen as almost like a voodoo type of thing. So the root doctor would kind of be like the voodoo doctor, but they wouldn’t call it that in Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina would be the root Dr.

Right. So, he was a figure to be feared.


Wow, yeah.  I can see, I could see parents using that to discipline the children here. Pretty scary.

And the slew foot was actually used to discipline in a way as well. And I don’t even know where slew foot came from, although I in my older days, I did a little research. And I think it might come from – I,  my family was Scots, Irish. They came to Appalachia from Scots, Irish heritage. So maybe they brought that over? But slew-foot, it was a critter that my grandmother told me lived under my bed. And at night when I was put in bed, I was told that if I got out of bed after it was bedtime, that slew-foot would get me.

And the slew-foot part of it is that he dragged one of his feet and so there would make this kind of sound. And I was absolutely terrified of slew-foot. In fact, I wouldn’t even get out of bed when I had to go to the bathroom, when I was a kid. And I know that even today I  will not hang my foot over a bed, over the bed. I tuck my feet into the cover and I didn’t realize it till my mother and I were talking. That was probably a trauma put on me by my grandmother.

Yeah. That’s, you know, you’re the second person I’ve spoken to who has Appalachian roots. The other one was a wonderful lady called WitchMama. She’s a granny witch, and but she lives in Kentucky. Kentucky, I think? The Kentucky end of the Appalachians. And she was saying the same thing. That they used – I hadn’t heard of your ones, but similar. To scare children to obedience, and that’s kind of like oh you poor guys! That must be kind of a cultural, cultural thing

Yeah, I think so.

Mind you, the mountains are dangerous places to be. There’s so much that could harm you, that I guess in a way, it’s a way of keeping you safe. But traumatizing you at the same time, for life, likely.

Yeah, very much so. And I’m sure it happened to my grandmother as well, because she was so superstitious, extremely superstitious. And in my, my family was so superstitious that when I named my oldest child, it was going to name him Jonas. And I got a call from my –  I guess you could call them my hillbilly family in Georgia. Because, that’s a loving term that people use for themselves. But, they said you cannot name your child Jonas. It’s too close to Jonah. And Jonah is, is a bad luck name. And I had to change my child’s name before he was born, I had to not do that, because, it brought so much just pain and strife to my family. They were so terrified.

Wow even today? That’s, that’s – Well, things like this that are very ingrained and they run very deep, don’t they? Almost like on a visceral level. When it’s something that’s being passed down from generation to generation, it’s very hard to buck the system

Right, yeah. And it was just easier for me to change, to change it than to. I just felt like, I would be dishonouring them. I didn’t want to hurt them. It wasn’t, I wasn’t so strongly attached that I wanted to hurt them.

Right, right. Oh, that’s, that’s, actually both really sweet and sad at the same time. So what are some of the other superstitions that your granny had that perhaps you’ve? – Or, maybe not superstitions, traditional beliefs?

There was some, there was a story that she would always tell about a house that she lived in. And this was something that she told my mother growing up. And even me when I was little. That when it rained, you could hear babies crying. And there was a house that she lived that she swore, that every time it rained, there were babies that had been thrown into the well before she ever moved there. But the babies would start crying when it rained.

So, she always had stories like this. She was afraid of black cats. She was in all the normal things. She was, she was very superstitious about ladders and just doing certain things on certain days. I wish I had a list, because, when you’re growing up with all of this, you just kind of hear it put out, no, we don’t do that. No, we don’t do that. And she’s no longer with us. And so I can’t, even though now I’m really interested in this sort of stuff, at the time when I was in my twenties. I was like, you know, my grandmother’s just that’s her Irish, you know, her superstition coming out that she that she brought, that came with her, with her family.

But she used to tell some pretty interesting stories. And one of them that they were in this house that they lived in, when my grandmother was very young. And there was a part of the house that was built up. And when they rented the home – and this would have been in the thirties or forties. And they were said, do not get into this room, don’t pull down this room. And at some point they decided that they were going to get in there. And when they got in there, this is the same house that had the crying babies, there was a skeleton of a boy hanging from the middle of this room where they had been living. Now, you know, I don’t know if that was just some mountain story and, or if it really happened, but she told that story a lot. So I don’t know. But that’s the type of things that she would tell all the time.

Right. So are you living like a living kind of in the country right now?

EVP: No!

I live on a family farm. It’s ten acres total.

Ah, ok.

Like, three of it is my family’s. And then I have two sisters that live on the property, and my parents live on the property.

Wow, what a neat set up. Aw, you know, that’s something I would really love for my family, you know, to have my children around me. But have our independence at the same time. Yeah, so where were we up to? Oh you were telling me about your granny’s experiences.

Yeah. There were a lot of stories. She would tell us the same stories over and over and just her superstitions came from, I think, just a lot of passed down knowledge and passed down stories. She was an interesting lady. I miss her a lot.

Oh, I’m sure. She sounds like she was a remarkable woman. And she grew up in times when it was hard, as well.


So you make did, or you did without.

Absolutely. Yeah. And they were extremely poor. I mean, their family was so poor that even my mother, who is not even seventy yet, went to school barefooted. I mean, you probably are familiar with the poor community of the Appalachians. That’s what people hear about the most.

That’s all we seem to hear about.

Yeah, that’s all anybody ever hears about. Oh, and their language. Because, my grandmother definitely had that language as well. But my mother went to school barefooted and they had out-houses growing up and she’s not even 70. She’s barely sixty-five. . .

She’s the same age as me!

Yeah. And she grew up with out-houses and going to school barefooted.

Right. I do recall, actually as a child, my grandparents lived in a government railway houses. And my grandfather used to work on the railway. And they had an outhouse as well, was connected to town sewage. But it was an outhouse nonetheless. Yeah, but not quite a long drop like you were referring to.

Yeah. Yeah. They all slept – She had three, three brothers and they all slept in the same bed. And they were, had the little small houses. And my granddaddy was a moonshiner. And I mean, just like whatever you would read about, that is what my family was. That’s the truth.

But you know, there’s nothing actually. Well in the summer, you know, there’s nothing wrong with being barefoot. I’m  a New Zealander. A Kiwi. And I rarely wear shoes. Rarely wear shoes. And it’s just the Kiwi culture, especially in summer.  Even going over to the supermarket, we’ll go bare feet. You know, it’s not something it’s not because we’re poor or, you know, we can’t afford shoes. It’s just simply the culture. So, but I understand the difference between not being able to afford shoes for your children when you don’t have the choice, that’s a bit scary.

I do recall as a child going to school in the winter, I lived in a town called Palmerston North as a kid. And it was very cold there. Heavy, heavy frosts and not snow. It never snowed, but it was really cold. And I would take my shoes off when I got out of sight of the house, because, I had to wear hand me downs that never fitted me properly. So it was more comfortable for me to go barefoot than it was to wear shoes that hurt me.

Makes sense. I hate shoes myself.

And nowadays there is, of course, scientific evidence to – that speaks of the benefit of grounding. Because, I know when I lived in the States for the time that I was in then, my in-laws never went without covering on their feet. Never! I never, ever saw them, even inside they’d have shoes and socks on. They never had contact with the earth at all! And that’s so vitally important for our health and well-being, to ground ourselves and have contact with the Earth. So in some respects, growing up, not wearing shoes is actually not a bad thing. Except for in the winter. And of course, you guys have snakes there, which we don’t have. So there’s additional dangers that we face in New Zealand. How you feel, that your growing up has impacted you today?

I, my story has so many twists and turns. And when I look back at everything from how I grew up, even from being in that cold and all the things my mother went through, and my grandmother, I’ve carried a lot of the magic with me. And I, I am even though I can’t prove it. I know that I had relatives who were probably granny witches. I mean, how can –  I just can’t imagine with everything that my grandmother told me, I think that she just was so afraid of the church, maybe that you just you just heard it in the little stories and the little snippets. But she didn’t come right out and say things.

Because when I look back with all the psychic thing,s and the happenings. And even the stories of my mother. I can see that there was something going on. And so it’s, it’s, really made me extremely compassionate. It’s also made me an advocate for people who not only are growing up poor, but are growing up with all the different abuses that I also grew up with. And so now I’ll be 50 this year. That’s a lot of years of both good and bad and lessons and struggles that I can now put into my life. I can tell my own children. I can tell my grandchildren when they come and I can help the people around me.

Right, right, and that’s – I’m actually of the same opinion. It’s our life’s experience, that make us who we are. And the things that we’ve been through. For those of us who are spiritually sensitive, our gifts aren’t for us. They’re given to help other people.

I think so, too.

So I can, I can absolutely relate to what you were saying. And on the what can learn. Most of my family aren’t aware of this. But, you know, I come from a line of wiccans passed down on the female line, except my mother never taught us. But I know she still followed, because she would – My younger siblings, because there was my sister and I and then all my – I have five sisters and three brothers. So I come from a large family, even by New Zealand standards. It’s a large family. So my sister and I were the eldest. I was the second and the others were only babies. So they don’t, even my older sister doesn’t remember this, but mom would go out to her coven meetings once a month and she’d wear this cloak. She wouldn’t let us touch. And I always wanted a cloak like that. But she never, ever passed down any information to us. And I understand why. New Zealand in those days, back in the sixties was not very forward thinking. They were very religious, you know, and anything that was alternative was satanic. Or, evil, or you know.  So she had –  I, in one respect, I understand that she had no option but to keep that quiet and for her own protection, basically.

Right. And that’s built in. I think some people have, have, called it the witch wound. I’ve been hearing about that lately, of just that. Ancestors who have had to hide for their own well-being. And we all carry that inside of us. And I’ve even met people who say to me, why are you doing so many things out in the open? Why are you having these full moon ceremonies every month, in the open for the community? You need to do things in secret. It’s not safe. And that’s that witch wound coming out. And there’s a there’s a very viable reason why people are afraid. Because, things, terrible things can happen in places. And even if it’s not just terrible things, you can still be hated. You can still get a lot of abuse from people. And I’ve gotten that even going into a bookstore here in my town and asking for the section for the paranormal or witchcraft or anything like that. I have gotten nasty looks.

I have been told, well, it should be in the fiction section. And just things like that. And just, you know, if I wear jewellery that that identifies me in some way as pagan, people will make comments. So it is, it’s an interesting, it’s interesting way to kind of be on that. I don’t know. I don’t know to what you would call it, kind of the veil in between when everything was hidden so much. And when everything, including you have witch talk and everything else that’s just opening up this world of witches now. But you still have the people who are afraid of it. So it’s almost like you’re right there in the middle trying to figure out where you should be and what’s safe.

Right. And of course, there’s a big distinction between those that follow the Wiccan path and witches. Wiccan is as much a religion as Christianity is. Witches on the other hand, it’s the practice of the craft. It’s not following any set rules or guidelines. That’s what feels right and intuitive to you. Is that correct?

Yes, that’s correct.

That’s always been my understanding. And it’s something that you mostly inherently born with, I believe.

I think so. Most people who come to this and you could call it paganism. Not all pagans are witches, though, but the whole pagan lifestyle of being Earth-based. People say, oh, it just feels like I’ve come home. It feels like I’ve known this my whole life. And then, the witchcraft on top of that is just when you’re doing the craft, when you’re doing the magic. When you’re doing the rituals or the spells. So you can have any belief. I have Christian witches that come to my things. I have met Jewish witches, I’ve met atheists, witches. So you don’t have to have any one belief system in order to want to change your world with your own magic.

Absolutely. And I always say – there goes your dog’s again. And I always say to people, it’s the intent that’s the key to any form of magic.


It’s your intent. The ritual that you perform is just focuses your intent. Like, when I tell people in my book in my Walking the Shadowlands FaceBook group, if you want to clean your house, anybody can cleanse their house energetically. It’s your intent that does that. You can use salt and water. You can use sage, although I generally recommend that people use whatever’s local to them. Rosemary, or salt and water, or clapping your hands, or banging pot lids together. Anything that focuses your intent. Ritual is just a tool that focuses your intent. And really it’s your intent that makes the difference.

I absolutely agree with that. I teach people all the time. Intent is key. It’s key with anything you do, because I don’t think that you need to have all these expensive tools, and fancy herbs from all around the world. I teach people all the time, you go into your kitchen cabinet, you pull out what feels right to you. But, what you’re doing in the end, it’s all about your intention. And you actually don’t even need anything to create magic in your life.

No, you just need to think it, and focus. And feel, feel it.

Yeah. I did magic last Saturday when I was sitting in the E.R. And as many people know, the E.R. is overrun right now. And so, I had an eight hour wait just to be seen. And they told me up front, it’s probably going to be five hours. So I already knew that it was going to be a long wait. And I just sat there and I thought, I need to speed this up. I need to speed time up. And I just used my arms and I just it was like I was doing a clock. And I just with my intention that time would speed up, time would speed up. And that’s what I just kept saying as I did that. And it felt like no time at all was there, before I was in there. Honestly, did I probably did it about three times through that eight hours. And I was totally fine. It wasn’t at all like I had actually sat there for eight hours. It was actually rather incredible. And I didn’t have anything special. I didn’t even have any special words. All I did it was said my intention speed up time and time to speed up.

Right, and that goes along with all these ‘gurus’ out there who talk about – Ah what is it that they say? They’re talking about the lore of abundance and drawing universal things to you. It’s all about intent, and intent is really the key.

Yeah, and I think it goes the other way as well, because, if you are drawing things to you and if you’re creating magic with your intent, think about how many times we curse ourselves with our own words, our thoughts?

Now, there’s something I hadn’t thought about you quite right.

Yeah, if words are power, because if you’re saying your intent is the power behind it, that’s the fuel. Then when you are telling yourself how stupid you are. Or, that you’ll never amount to anything, or when your parents say that to you, or friends, you’re actually stating curses. Where, I think most of the curses we have on us, we have put on ourselves, and people. It’s not been put on intentionally.

You know, that’s something I actually hadn’t even considered, but that’s a very valid point. How often do we talk negatively to ourselves? And it’s been trained into us, for the most part. Like, we’ve been told – I, well I can’t speak for anybody else, but we were always – You know, if we were ever proud of any achievements we made as kids, we were told, oh don’t skite!  But being proud and honouring what you’ve achieved is not skiting. It’s just looking for recognition and acknowledgement of what you achieved. There’s a difference.

Yeah, definitely.

Yes. I think a lot of parents do that to the children, inadvertently, perhaps. And so they start the cycle of, oh, I can’t feel good about what I achieved, you know?

Absolutely. And then, and then not only can you not feel good about it, but then you have the people who go so far as feel ashamed. Because, they have accomplished something. And so therefore they tried to pull it down, they pull themselves down, or they pull other people down. Because, you cannot even show anything. And so it becomes even this worst kind of a thing. And so we’re living in this society, at least where I live, this society of everybody pulling everyone down and everyone trying to be this walked upon thing. That we cannot stand tall, we can’t speak out.

We can’t even, you know people, if they even make themselves up and make themselves beautiful and take a picture, a selfie. You’ve got the people saying nasty things about that. If you look like crap, you’ve got the people saying, hey, they don’t even care about themselves. You absolutely cannot win. And so you have to find that power within yourself. And you have to recognize, I think, the power of intention in your life, good, bad and neutral. And that’s how things are going to change, is when you recognize the power of words. With your own children, or with your own self.

Absolutely, I agree one hundred percent! Wow, powerful. You know, I honestly had never considered that aspect of it, it just had never occurred to me. So it makes me really think. Yeah, I’m really going to have to change the way I talk to myself sometimes, you know? Because, it becomes it becomes habit and you do it without even thinking about.  Oh, wow. So moving on. You grew up with this background in witchcraft and in spirituality. And it lead you into very interesting areas in your life, I hear.

It does. It has allowed me to be called in for many situation, in people’s homes, and lands. And with people, to deal with negative entities, negative energies, issues, things like that. So I’ve had some pretty interesting run-ins, being called in. Because, I’m basically the local witch, who deals with this kind of stuff.

Right. Are you able to share any of them without, you know, giving people’s identities away?

Yeah, I can share some of those. So one of the one of the ones that really sticks with me is because I had to go out there twice. There was this really dark energy at this person’s house. And they had they had had paranormal investigators out there. They had had, I believe, a shaman, different people out there. But, they could not get rid of it. And it was really becoming troublesome for the owner of the house. It was a very small house. And I had a lady that I’ve been mentoring, and so myself and this lady went out there. And we brought a friend. She brought my friend brought someone with her who was not very skilled as we were, not as trained. As soon as we walked in, the friend had scratches down her arms and was so sick that she had to step outside. So we continued to cleanse the home going through. At one point we had the, we had burning sage in our hand. And it was knocked out of our hand, backwards toward us.

In one area of the home. The smoke began moving in the opposite direction and we were there for several hours. And this was just a small four room house. And it took us that much time to get through there. But, there was something in the attic that we could not reach. And the attic door was nailed shut so we could not get up in it. And there was a chimney. And we could we could feel with our, because we both have gifts in that way, feeling energy. We could feel that something was still up in the attic, but the light changed. There was, there was actually several paintings in the home that ended up being burned, because, they had negative energy on them. And by the time I left that home, I had scratches down my arms. And I protect myself very well. I had scratches like fingers had gone down the backs of my arms. That took about a week to heal. Yeah, but when I left that home.

About a year later, they were still having problems. So we went back. This time I took my dad with me. I took a ladder and my dad completely opened up that attic, and I climbed up into it. And it was so unsettling what I heard up there. And it was like a murmuring. And I could pinpoint the direction of where it was coming in the attic. And when I go into a place like this, I ask for all the energy of all of the support that I have, angels and deities and spirit guides, all of that.

And so I was asking for their support and this murmuring was coming from the corner. And it was almost like a murmuring that would drive someone crazy. And so I just called in the power of my guides and angels. And I came down because it was so unsettling down the steps. Someone else went up and was putting some sigils and things up there. And before you know it, the excuse me. Before we knew it, an entity, just an energy had come by the door, it was a screen door. Opened on its own and then slammed, as this, as we felt this this rush of energy go by us. And after that moment. The house was completely cleared and the girl that had been living there, she had been really struggling. Even to the point of having really dark thoughts and not doing well in her life. And she is doing so well now. This has been about a year ago now, which was our second time there. And she is doing so well. And I think that whatever that was, probably had been there a really long time. But, I will never forget being up in that attic, and hearing that noise, because it was so unsettling, whatever was up there.

Right. And did you? Did it make you feel unsafe?

It made me feel extremely unsafe. I had two people holding the ladder, just to get down. Because I was afraid that it was going to knock me off the ladder, or do something like that. So, yeah, it was very it felt very unsafe. It was it was just an amazing feeling, though, when, when I knew that it had left.

Yeah, you can feel the difference right away. Yeah, it’s like yeah. It’s like it’s hard to explain to people. But, it’s like, it’s like the sun coming out from behind a cloud!

Absolutely. And the light changed in this house as well. And there weren’t a lot of windows, because, it was an old block house and the windows were covered. But the light got lighter, the light in that room got lighter. And you could breathe easier in that house. And that was just one of many that I’ve been to.

Right. That’s really interesting. Have you ever had times when you’ve been really fearful for yourself?

I don’t get as fearful anymore, but I have I’ve had times in my life where I’ve been extremely fearful. One of the times was when I was in, when I first went to college and I would have sleep paralysis. And I woke up and I was I could not move. And there was something sitting on my chest. And that was probably one of the most – that happened several times. But that time when I woke up in my dorm room, I could not move and had this weight and it looked like a dark, demonic shape, sitting on my chest, was terrifying. That was before I really took control of what I was doing in my life. I was very young. I was probably nineteen years old. And I had been I had been programmed so much that all these things I was experiencing, was demonic. So, when I saw a demon basically sitting on me and I said, oh, my goodness, I’m not walking with the Lord right now. But that was really terrifying.

 I don’t get scared any more. I probably I don’t know. I would say I probably should, but I don’t. Anymore, because I feel like I feel like I have more power over what’s going on. I’m extremely careful, but it’s not a fear type of a thing. I know what I’m, I know what I’m going against and I know what could happen. But I’m petrified is in fear. I protect myself. I protect my car. I have certain things that I do to make sure I don’t carry things home with me, because, I have a what would you – I don’t know what you would call it? Just a natural respect for the power.

Right. Absolutely, I understand that. So all your experiences, obviously kicked you interested in the paranormal. And so you became a tour guide at one stage?

Yes, there is a local museum, and I started being a volunteer there. And as soon as I started being a volunteer there, I started hearing about a ghost that was there. It’s very interesting because I grew up in this town and I hadn’t really heard about the ghost even as a child, not until I was there. But he’s called Bubba and he’s very famous. And as I, as I began to be a docent, and then we got into doing ghost tours. And I was the ghost tour guide, I began to have more experiences with Bubba, especially during the ghost tours, but even outside of the ghost tours.

But the one time that I do remember well, there were several times experiences with him. But I saw him once. And being a docent, I’m in costume. I’m standing up on the fourth floor. Nobody in the building at the time, nobody on the floor at the time. And I looked over and there he was in overalls and a black and white checked shirt and he walked across from me. And since I’ve been doing ghost stories, I thought someone was playing a trick on me. So I start running to find out who it is. And I run through the museum area and there is nobody there. So I come back to my station. I’m still dressed in costume, so I’m standing there and I’m standing outside of an old country store and I’m thinking, what did I just see?

That it looks like everything that I’ve ever heard from other people about Bubba. That has to be Bubba. I looked inside the store and our second ghost was inside the store. We call her The Lady in Black, and she was dressed in black Victorian mourning outfit, standing behind the counter looking at a pile of material. And I said, my shift is over. I’m done! And, I left because it just was so crazy that I saw both of them. Because, usually people have experiences with maybe a cold hand, or light going out, or things like that. Very few people have actually seen them.

Ah, interesting. But obviously enough people have seen them to. . .

Yeah, enough people have had experiences in some way. So the very first, the very first experience that I ever heard of with the lady in black, was a woman who came and actually saw a mannequin. – Is what she thought. Sitting on this, it’s a hearse, a horse-drawn hearse, that’s outside of that little country store. And they touched it and dust fell everywhere. And so she went to someone who was an employee of the museum and said, your mannequin up there on the hearse is filthy. You all got to do something about that. It is disgusting! And the man said there is no mannequin on the hearse.

Oh, my goodness.

And then, and then I was also told by another lady, this happened before I started working there. But, she had come to do a program on silver. And so she was up there before the museum opened, setting out her silver. And she had been told by the security guard that nobody was in the building. She could go up there on her own. And so, as she was setting up her silver, a man in overalls stepped into the room. And came over and began talking to her. Picked up her silver and was asking her questions about it. And she was very nervous, because she was thinking, hey, nobody’s supposed to be here. I haven’t put my stanchions up, to keep people from touching things. This man is touching everything. So the man put everything down. He was very nice to her. He left. She runs downstairs to the security station and said there’s somebody else in the museum. And he said, no, there’s not. She said, check your cameras. So they proceed to look at the camera and they see the door open. They see her talking to someone, they see her silver lift up. But there is no one.

Woah! That’s pretty –That’s probably the most amazing story I’ve ever heard, I think. And it was caught on camera. Wow.

Yeah, that was amazing. I couldn’t believe that. And that was sent to me by someone who is very well thought of in the community. She is not someone that would just make something like that up.

Yeah, wow. I wonder if they still have the footage?

I have asked and asked for that, but I think it’s one of those things where it gets deleted at the end of the day. Because, no one has ever been able to find it. But, she says that she stood there and watched it, and that is what happened. I believe her.

Yeah, that poor woman. She must’ve been peeing herself.

Right! Oh gosh! And Bubba’s never hurt anybody, but I guess he is interested in silver. Yeah.

So what’s the history with Bubba? Do you know anything about his history?

What I know and what I’ve  been told is that before it was a museum, it was an old cotton mill. And in between the time that it was a museum and a cotton mill, there was a lot of work being gone, gone on to convert it. And he had died in the elevator shaft. So, he had thought the elevator box was under him and it actually was above him, and it cut his head off. So some people see him without and I saw him with a head. But, some people have reported seeing him without a head. And that’s kind of where that started. And as far as the lady in black, we have a whole Victorian mourning area. So, I think that since there’s not as many stories about her that go back that far, she must have come in with – I feel like she must have come in with pieces of maybe Victorian health jewellery or something like that.

Right. That’s exactly what I was going to say. I think of a more a piece mourning jewellery with her hair in.

Yeah, which is right there where she is seen a lot. So that whole area is right there. So she could be attached to any of that!

Right. Well, maybe you could explain to my listeners who may not be aware, of how it’s possible that spirt can sometimes attach to objects?

Yeah, absolutely. I have dealt with a lot of different objects that have that energy attached to it. And that’s kind of what it comes down to. In my belief system, at least, everything is energy. I think even scientifically, they’ve proven that everything, to some degree, is some sort of energy. And so it goes to prove that when your body dies, your energy goes somewhere. So if you have something like hair, jewellery, or even paintings, or other things like that. Even homes, even the walls of your house.  If you’ve lived in a house for thirty years, and that’s kind of where the residual hauntings I think come from, is that energy has opened up that door, you know, a million times. It stands to reason that that energy is going to keep kind of doing that. But I think that energy gets absorbed into items. And so therefore, you can have this manifestation coming from an object.

Right.. So especially for something that they loved. Or it’s got personal, like the Victoria morning jewellery that had the hair of the deceased person. That’s got their energies attached to.


Which is in some cultures, it’s very important what you do with your hair clippings. And your hair and nail clippings, because, they can be used in black, working’s against you. So I know some cultures are very careful about I was speaking with a couple the other day who, who said that they often bury their hair and their nail clippings.

Yeah, I think that it would be in a lot of different magic systems of what you could do with that. Because, even in the magic that I do, if I want to really boost the power of something – Let’s say I’m making a spell jar, that’s for protection for myself. You’re going to just boost the power of that exponentially by putting your own nail clippings, or hair into that. Or, other parts of your body. People use blood all the time too. Blood magic, I mean, that’s supposed to be very powerful. So and a lot of places. Yeah, you don’t want somebody the wrong person to get their hands on that, because, they’re going to have a lot of control over you.

Right, right, because it just flows back to the energy source. And there’s no distance, there’s no time or distance with the energy. So it doesn’t matter if on the other side of the world, they can still affect your energy, right?

Yeah, I think that’s totally true. And I think that even if they don’t have your hair, or your nail clippings, I still see that as true. Because, I’ve had people all over the world send me even Reiki healing, and they’re affecting me. Because time and space is not something that we understand. So it really doesn’t matter how far away or what time it is. But, yeah, definitely you get that power when you have – Sometimes people say with their name, your true name, too, if someone uses your name in magic. And that’s why a lot of times you’ll find even witches and other magic practitioners who will use other names when they’re out in the public or things like that. They have a special name that nobody but their closest coven members would know because that in itself has power as well.

Right, right, well, it all boils down to energy. It does, and it’s basically it’s all energy. And actually there’s something that my Star People told me all about, was the energy and intent. And it’s a natural law of this planet.

Yeah. I remember when you were on my podcast and you were talking about that, I thought that was so interesting. That it was when you were a child, right? They taught you about energy and intent. And it’s something that is such an important such an important concept that more people are learning about now. And the star people already taught you that. I thought that was so interesting and amazing.

Yeah, all my life. And with the current world situation, as it stands, at this point in time, I’ve known for some time that this was coming. I didn’t know the exact mechanism that was going to be used. But, I knew what was coming. Have you noticed recently? Actually, it’s probably been about three years now, how thin the veil has become between dimensions?

I have absolutely noticed that because the majority of the things that I’ve been called to do with entities and all that sort of thing has been within the last three or four years. The majority of it, I’d say have been within the last two and a half, I would say.

Yes, that’s right.

And I have noticed even – I’m an empath, and I have noticed even shifting emotions in the world. Last summer I can, I could pinpoint – I knew when the shift here in America mostly, happened. Where everything went from just the fear, fear and panic. And it turned to rage. I don’t know if you felt that or you know what I’m talking about,

I do.

but there was a time that it shifted to rage. And I’ve definitely just seen a lot of things happening in my own life, around my own property of the veil thinning. And Samhain is one of my favourite times of year. So I’m always about liminal space. I love the liminal times of year and the liminal places in the world, but I feel like. It’s liminal time everywhere. I feel like we’re living in a liminal time right now.

Can you please explain for my listeners who may not know what liminal time is?

So, liminal spaces, or liminal times are transition places.  So a liminal time of year would be a transition season. Like you’ve got autumn going from summer to winter. You’ve got spring, which is winter to summer. So, those are times that are very liminal. But also, the place where the ocean meets the beach. That’s a liminal space. Even something like a stairwell or a corridor in a hotel. Those are liminal spaces as well. So it’s that kind of in-between space as it moves to something else.

Oh, wow, that’s very interesting. I actually didn’t know that myself, so you were educating me as well. But yeah, and I’ve said to my Walking the Shadowlands group members, so many times over the past two and a half, three years. Be aware, the veil is thinning. It’s so thin, it’s buckling and tearing in places. I’m noticing that my group members are seeing a lot more spirits. They’re mentioning a lot more how,  well, I’ve got new members who are saying I’m having this issue in my home. My child is seeing this. My child is seeing that. And it’s solely because of this thinning, tearing, and buckling. And it’s part and parcel of the overall things that are happening with this planet. When covid first started and the fear really started with the people. I put out a little podcast episode, just twenty minutes long. Called The End Game. Which is my overall view and knowing of what’s happening. And the covid is just a tool that’s been used to up the fear. It’s very real. It’s for real. I’m not doubting that covid is out of you, as you know, because you’re getting over it yourself. But it’s definitely being used to create fear in people.

Absolutely, I agree. The whole world has been run on power since early times. And anything that politics or religion can grab a hold of, that can control, they’re going to do that. So, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. But, it does mean that you’re going to have people that are going to use it for their own benefit.

Absolutely. Now, Mela, I’m not going to keep you much longer. Because, I know you’re recovering from covid and I really appreciate your time today. Before we go, tell us about your podcast and what you do?

I have a podcast. It’s a Witchy podcast. I like to call it a Witchy Wellness podcast, because I have a lot of different people coming on it. I’m all about wellness. But, I’m also about magic. And I’m about ritual and just all those types of things, of living my everyday spiritual life. I’m not the type of person that on a full moon, that’s when I’m a witch. I’m a witch all day, every day. And so, that comes into my podcast and it’s called Bell Book & Candle. And it’s on all the major podcast stations and platforms. And I have wonderful guests. You’ve been on there. It was a wonderful episode with you. Lots of people talking about anything from their own personal magic and being a witch, to most of my guests not even being witches. But, they’re coming on talking about their stories and their journey and manifestation in their own magic. So I think it was something I started during the pandemic. And it’s just been a wonderful thing, I think.

So are you on all social media platforms? How can people get a hold of you.

I am on Facebook under Bell Book and Candle And I also have a website called 3 Rays of Light.org And that’s a number three. And you can message me right through that, or you can message me, or find me on Facebook. That’s mostly the social media that I’m most active on.

Right, but so you’re not on Instagram, TikTok, or Twitter?

I am not active on there

I look, I totally get that. One of the things I find hardest about doing this podcast, is the social media.

I want to tell you about an experience that I just had three weeks ago. And do you have a minute for me to tell you this?

Yeah. Yeah, please. Yeah.

It was one of the most amazing experiences in my whole life. And my son’s fiancé, her father got very ill and he got ill within a week. He was intubated and everything else. And so they had to pull him off all the machines and everything. And I’ve been a hospice volunteer, I’ve been in the house when people have died, I’ve never stood right next to somebody when they died. But I held space for her and was in there when this happened. I prayed that the angels would come, and Marianne, I saw angels coming down the hallway of the hospital. And as it happened, the room filled with angels and other spirits, I don’t know who they were, but the whole hospital room filled with these spirits, they congregated as he died. They congregated over his body, and I saw them. It was like his soul came up out of his body, and the angels gathered it. And then healing energy spread throughout the room.

And then it all went away. And then I saw him standing behind, when the daughter came in. I saw his spirit behind her with his hand on her shoulder. I saw her hair move from where he was touching her. And I didn’t say anything to anybody because of course, you don’t just out of the blue tell people. But then, I was asked about what did I – because they know that I’m a sensitive, and they I was asked if I noticed anything. So when I when I actually told them before I even got to where he was standing, she knew she said I felt him there. I knew he was there, but I didn’t know that. I didn’t want to ask. I don’t want to say anything. It was so incredible. But the whole I don’t know, I’m not afraid of death. And I teach classes on not being afraid of dying. But it was such an incredible experience to watch the healing take place at the moment of death, of when the soul came up. And the healing energy just happened. It was really incredible.

Wow, that was a beautiful experience to witness. That must have been incredibly comforting, very comforting for you actually

Very comforting. I mean, I just I didn’t have any fear at all. And it all, even though I don’t have a lot – of course, everyone’s going to fear the moment of death. But going forward, I, I it’s like I’ve seen the moment of death and I’ve seen the healing and the beauty of it. And there’s even though you’re fearing the unknown. There’s nothing to fear. I don’t know, it gave me a lot of comfort.

I absolutely agree with you. I mean, I was a nurse for close to forty years and I’ve seen thousands of people die, that’s no exaggeration. Thousands of people die. And I I’ve sat with people who had no one because I didn’t want them to pass by themselves because, you know, it’s just it’s just not right. They needed somebody here helping them, you know, not helping them. Just comforting them and being there.

Yeah. Just holding space.

Just holding space. yeah. And I’ve never seen what you’ve seen. I’ve felt, but I’ve never seen what you’ve seen, in all those years. And I’ve seen thousands of deaths. But to me, I agree with you. Death is not to be feared at all. What scares me is how I’m going to die. And that’s a very human thing, of course. We’d all like to die in our sleep painlessly, but, you know, the death itself holds no fear for me, whatsoever. It’s merely moving from one room to another.

Yeah. Just a transition.

Just a transition, what a beautiful – what did these angels look like?

They – I’ve seen angels before. I’ve seen angels on the on the roofs of cars as I was driving. Every car around me had this white

Was it like an aura?

Yeah, kind of in the shape of just a really large creature, kind of floaty. And that’s what I saw coming down the hospital room. Is just this this bright, white light. But you can kind of make out the shape. And then when they came in, when they were in the room, I could tell between the angels and the spirits. And I’ve been told that spirits come when someone’s their ancestors and things like that. So that’s what I’m assuming that was. But it was it was just like a very, a very loving white light in the shape of a very large humanoid.

Not like how people perceive angels publicly, with wings.

Yeah, I couldn’t make out anything like that, but I – You know, angels are in all kinds of cultures and they’re not all called angels.

Absolutely. And, you know, I’ve always been of the opinion what are angels, but extra-terrestrials? Because they don’t belong in this realityand this dimension. So by definition, they are extra-terrestrial.

That’s interesting.

But it’s perception, isn’t it? It’s perception.


But what a wonderful experience for you, Mela. It’s just, that must have just been incredibly calming, incredibly supportive. And for you to be able to pass along to the grieving family as well. What a blessing for them. I mean, I’ve had a lot I’ve had a lot to do with grieving families over the years, both as a nurse, and in my work as a sensitive. And it’s always, to me, a huge blessing. And a responsibility, to be able to help these people. To pass messages like that on. That their loved ones are OK. And that, you know, they’re still around them and they still love them. You know, that that never stops with the passing of the body.

But, Mela. I’m really aware of your time. And I’m really aware that you are recovering from covid. So I don’t want to take any more of your energy. Otherwise, I’d keep you talking for another hour. Literally. Literally, I would. I would. But I’m not going to do that to you. I’m really grateful for the time that you’ve given us today. And thank you so much. It’s just been an absolute pleasure talking to you.

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a joy.


I want to thank Mela, for being so kind and talking to me while she’s still recovering from her covid infection. I am extremely grateful to her for her time and energy in being a part of this episode. And by the time this airs, she hopefully is feeling heaps better and is fully recovered. Next episode will be our yearly Halloween show. I really enjoy doing those episodes, because it’s the one time that I allow myself to add sound effects and fun bits to the show. This year will be a little different though. Instead of two I am only doing one for the podcast, and a special one for my patrons only.

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