Episode 33: The Hulk – A Haunting In Kansas

I think most people have felt that wonderful feeling of moving into a new home…. New beginnings. A new place to settle down and make into your own. You move into your home, with your new partner with feelings of positive anticipation, and excitement. Eager to place your stamp, your personality on this space that has just become yours. Looking forward to whatever life may bring you and your family now.

But, what if your new dream home, turns into a nightmare? What if what you thought was an empty, welcoming space, is suddenly not so empty or as welcoming as you initially thought? You have sunk all your savings into this place, and could not move out even if you wanted to. How would you cope? What would you do?

My guest this episode is one such person, one such family who found themselves in this situation. Not having the financial resources to move out, they had to make the best of their situation and co-share their house with unseen guests, who let this family know that they were around and this was their house! What would you do in such a situation? Are you willing to come and walk with me into this part of the Shadowlands and see, what awaits us there? Then let’s begin.

This episode today is a little longer than most of my episodes run for, because, I didn’t want to split it into two episodes. My guest today, Lauren, is a 33-year-old mother of two lovely young daughters who were born a year apart. She is from Kansas, USA and holds down a full-time job. This is her story.

The Hulk – A Haunting In Kansas

Marianne: It’s really nice to meet you finally, and thank you so much for agreeing to talk about your experiences in your home.

Lauren: This is probably the first time I’ve ever sat down and told the whole story.

So that probably could be quite cathartic for you then Lauren?

Yeah. Definitely. We moved to this house in August of two-thousand-fifteen, so we’ve been here for probably a little over four years now. In the midst of all this, I told a couple of co-workers about what was going on at the house, but I don’t normally talk about it much. Because, people look at me weird, or…. I never know if they really believe me, or if they’re just making jokes about it when I’m not around. So I just don’t normally tell people about it.

Right. I am assuming your experiences all began when you moved into this new house?

Yeah. Well, I moved here…. At the time I was dating this guy. We’d been dating for quite some while.  He had gotten a job in this town. He wanted to move out of the big city where we had been living. And I was down for that, because, at the time I hated my job where I was at and I hated all the crime in our area. And I just decided to come and move into this small town out in the middle of nowhere.

He said he knew a guy, through his work, I guess? That had a whole bunch of rental houses, and this one was up for rent, I guess. He wanted to go and look at it. It’s a really, it’s a beautiful house. It’s big. It’s so much bigger than where we were, because we were in a small little apartment. The house here is three bedrooms. Has a full-finished basement, huge fenced in back-yard, attached garage. Like, everything that we wanted. And it was actually less than we were paying for our apartment, so

I was shocked at that. When we first walked in and took a look around, I felt nothing off. Like I didn’t think anything strange was going on. What really kind of…. I guess our very first clue that there was something odd…. It actually wasn’t me that said something. It was my boyfriend at the time. He was – He said; “Have you ever noticed all the weird noises up stairs at night?”

Our room was downstairs, and there were two bedrooms that are directly above this one. And I said; “Yeah I noticed it but….” I remember thinking it was the plumbing. Which doesn’t make any sense, ’cause, there’s not like a bathroom and a bedroom with running water in there. I don’t know why I thought maybe it was pipes or something, but I just kind of shrugged it off. I didn’t think anything strange of it. Ah, but I did notice our landlord, he didn’t do any background check or anything. It was a very quick transaction. It was just like, ok we like this house. He just gave us the keys and it seemed like he was very eager to get someone in here.

Oh that’s interesting.

Right. And I noticed pretty quickly that we were constantly getting mail for so many other different people that it was so many different names, I lost track of them all. And I was sitting there thinking, what man, he’s gone through a lot of people only staying for a short time and then leaving. I didn’t really think much of it other than that. But then after a while I started to think, oh my god, I bet all these people just couldn’t stay here. Now I understand why.

So let’s see here. I remember him saying…. Making a comment about the noises upstairs. I kind of brushed it off. But, I was starting to notice it too. There was one day when I was home from work, and my kids were at school. I think I was sick, was the deal and I called into work. So he was gone. I was the only one home.

It was daytime. I had gotten the kids up and got ‘em ready for school. Sent ‘em off and then I went back down to go lay down in bed. As I was laying there, I suddenly realised that there was all this noise coming from upstairs. It was constant and it had been going on for quite a while, and it was the sound of someone walking around. Someone banging something, or furniture being moved. And then there was the sound of something rolling across the floor. It almost sounded like…. I pictured a pencil like rolling across the floor.

And I thought, what’s going on up there? So I went upstairs and I was kind of expecting to see our landlord. I thought maybe he came into do something and I thought well that’s odd that he couldn’t contact me before he just walked in and…. So I came upstairs kind of mad, like who’s in here? And as soon as I got upstairs, it was just silent. And I was like what in the heck and went and looked in the room. And there was nobody in there and nothing that had fallen. I couldn’t find anything out of place.

So I just thought, oh that’s strange and then I went back downstairs. As soon as I got downstairs and back in bed, then it started up again. But even at that point I was still…. I wasn’t afraid or anything, I just figured there was something going on that I had overlooked. I figured there was just some normal explanation.

After that, you know, I noticed the noises quite a bit. But, I couldn’t find any explanation, but I didn’t really assume it was anything weird. But, I did start…. I started having a lot of weird dreams. Like I would always have this same recurring dream where I would believe I was awake and I was walking around the house. Then all of a sudden I would realise oh my god, I’m not awake. And then I would think ok I’m going to be late for work. I have to get up right now. And then, I couldn’t wake myself up!

And then I would just start panicking and after a while I started to become aware, that there was …. I don’t know how really to describe it, but I was aware there was…. Like I could I could sense there was a man there, nearby when I was having these dreams. And sometimes he would be murmuring something and…. They weren’t normal dreams. It was like…. It was almost like a wind was rushing around me during it, if that makes any sense?

Yes. Absolutely.

I could feel like wind in my hair. There was one night, it….  It wasn’t just like sleep paralysis I also would get up and walk around sometimes. And there was one night when I had gotten up. I was having this horrifying dream again and I was trying so hard to get up. And I remember kind of like, I was just putting all my energy into trying to move my body. And I felt my body starting to move and then for a brief moment my eyes opened. And I could see myself lying on the couch, ‘cause, I had fallen asleep on the couch. And then like, I could see myself on the couch, but I could also feel myself walking around the room and kind of see the room around me too.  It was the strangest thing I have ever experienced. It was like being in two places at once.

Right. So basically you were having an out of body experience?

Yeah, I mean…. I guess that’s the only way we could describe it. But, it was so strange, like I was on the couch and I knew I was on the couch. I could see myself. But I could also see myself not on the couch and like I was kind of, like walking around or whatever…. I picked up this piece of paper and wrote the words ‘guilt’ and ‘regret’. I was just writing them over and over. And somehow or another, I finally woke up. And when I did I realised that I actually had written guilt and regret on the paper at some point.

So that really started to freak me out! And then, shortly after that – a couple of days later, there was a friend. She lived here in town and she would come over to the house a lot and she had always said; “Look, I think your house is haunted.” I would just kind of laugh it off but you know, because she was so open to that idea, I guess, that felt comfortable you know, telling her everything. I told her about the sleep-walking and the sleep paralysis and then the whole guilt and regret thing on a piece of paper. And I was telling her everything. Like as we sat in the living room.

And then after she left, she called me and she said she had just pulled into her driveway. And heard, like a knocking sound on the back of her truck. And she was…. This particular friend, she carried a gun with her everywhere. Like she always had a gun in her purse. And she thought there was maybe like a burglar out in her drive. So she pulled the gun out, and got out of her car thinking she was going to find someone standing there. But there was no one there. And the knocking just kept going on. Yeah. So she ran inside, called me and said; “Whatever’s in your house followed me home.”

And so she told me I should get a hold of this team of paranormal investigators. They were a local team here in Kansas and I don’t know how she knew about them, but she was the one who convinced me I should really do this. So I got a hold of them and told them what was going on and they agreed to come out. There was…. I remember they came out here and the first visit was just kind of like a getting to know us, type deal. Kind of get a feel for the house. Take some pictures. Like rule out any explainable causes, like they looked for draughty windows or old appliances that might be giving off a lot of EMF and stuff like that. And we were talking about just general chit-chat as we sat in the living room and they had a K2 meter sitting on the coffee table, in the middle of the room. And it was just sitting there doing nothing and they started to ask more questions about what’s going on in the house and I started to tell them.

All of a sudden as soon as they start to talk about it, the meter starts flashing. And I didn’t even know what a K2 meter was. I wasn’t really concerned at that point. But I saw them looking at each other. Kind of giving each other these looks and I was like well what’s that…. What’s that meter doing?  What’s that mean? They said; “Well it’s picking up some kind of frequency. It seems like every time we’d start talking about what’s going on here…. It’s like…. It’s like something’s poking its head around the corner trying to listen in.”

So I remember that just really gave me the shudders and just thinking like what the hell would be listening to us? And why would they be listening to us?  From there they went around trying to find out if there was some source of EMF in the house that was maybe making us feel strange, ‘cause, they said that it can cause you to feel sick. It can cause you to feel like you’re being watched.

There wasn’t anything out of the ordinary. Of course, like the appliances and electrical outlets and stuff were giving a reading. But one of the strangest things was the set of windows in my oldest daughter’s room…. It’s her room, but she’s never slept in there ‘cause…. Like she was so excited to have her own room when we moved here. But for some reason, she would never stay in that room.  I realise now that she didn’t feel like it was hers. Like she never felt like that was her area. She felt like it belonged to someone else I guess. She didn’t feel comfortable in there. And so…. Anyway in that room these two windows had a constant EMF reading and they were asking; “Well what’s underneath here? What’s outside of here?”

They went down the basement. They went outside the windows trying to find a source of it. And they couldn’t find anything. And that remained constant. I…. I haven’t checked recently, but for years it’s been there and I don’t know why? And when they took photos throughout the house, those particular windows in some of the photographs has this blue glow to them. And others, they were just normal.

So I never had any reason why it was that way. I still don’t have any explanation for that. It was just one of those weird things that…. And then, they also took another photo in my room and there was like something in the photograph. It kind of looked like a figure sitting on the bed. That was another thing that…. I forgot to mention that part, but, I would sometimes feel like my bed was being shaken. I would get into bed and it would start shaking and I would always look to see if it was an earthquake or something. I mean, nine times out of ten, there wasn’t an earthquake. And so I couldn’t figure out why this was happening. So, they finished up their initial visit and they said they were going to come back and it was maybe a couple of weeks later, when they did come back.

One of the guys, whose name was Rough, but he pronounced it Rough. He was kind of like the main…. The leader of the group. And he was a really big guy. Tall, broad shoulders. He immediately seemed to become a target for this, whatever it was in our house. When he came in he immediately began to talk about how he felt a pressure on his shoulders, on his neck area. He felt something was squeezing him or pushing down on him somehow. And he was asking like…. He was asking, who is in here? Or what’s? I can’t quite remember what he said now, but…. Of course this was all being recorded, ‘cause, everything was always recorded. We played back the recording and you could hear a man saying; “They call me the hulk.”

They call me the what? Sorry, I didn’t quite hear you.

They call me the hulk. Like the incredible hulk. That really scared me, because, it suddenly all seemed to make sense. Like the way…. Like I would hear furniture being moved, or I would feel furniture being shaken underneath me, like he was saying, I’m really strong. Don’t mess with me. You don’t want to mess with me. And hearing that voice and those words like that, it made my heart stop. I was instantly so terrified for my kids. Like I kept thinking oh my God, what is in here? Is he going to hurt us?

After that…. It wasn’t long after that when they brought out the spirit box and they were asking, kind of demanding, give us your real name. And we did get a name, in the same guy’s voice and there was a first and last name. I don’t know whether I should say his name. I know he has living family members some where, I haven’t been able to find a lot of them.

That’s ok. Don’t say his name. Or you can say it, but I won’t air it.

But yeah, so we got his first and last name. And they were asking me do you know somebody by that name? Is it maybe a family member? I said I don’t know it doesn’t sound familiar. So I started looking through my family tree trying to figure out if I know this person? And I couldn’t find anything. Then suddenly I had this idea to go back and look up property records, and so that’s when I sort of started to notice how many people lived in that house in such a short period of time.  It was just one after another, after another. They all seemed to stay for two or three months and leave.

How interesting. That’s never a good sign.

But I came to that same name and thought oh my gosh, that’s the man who lived here! And even at that point. And I don’t know why? Even at that point I though oh it’s probably just a co-incidence. So I called my neighbour, because, she had lived here her entire life. Her Mum grew up here and I asked her, do you know a man by this name? Or did you know a man by this name? She said; “Yeah my Mum knew him. Why do you ask?” I told her, well we got that name from a spirit box. I said, do you know if he’s still alive or what? And she said; “Well, I’ll find out.” And she asked her Mum. Her Mum came back and said; “No. He passed away some years ago.” So that’s when I really started to…. Well ok, there must be something to this, ‘cause, that’s just really odd.

Right, wow. At this stage it must have made it even more real for you as well.

Oh yeah. Yeah it did. But, honestly the point where it really became real. I was…. I think this was after we had gotten the name. It was a night, shortly after…. They were supposed to come back again and it was either the night before, or the day of. I can’t recall exactly. But I was standing in my room and I was fighting with my boyfriend at the time. We had just gotten into a big argument and I was downstairs in my room, when I heard…. I was just standing there alone and I heard this voice saying; “You stupid bitch!”

And it was just this really angry, like muttering voice. That it was just so clear and it was just right there. And then there was this growl, that just filled the room and I couldn’t tell where it was coming from. But, I at first thought it was his dog. He has this little terrier. And I thought it him that said it. Even though he wasn’t in the room, but I thought it had to have been him. So I called him and burst through the door and he was up, just about to come down the stairs. He was at the top.

And I said; “Why would you say that to me?”

He’s just like; “What are you talking about?”  

And I said,” Don’t try to lie to me. Why would you lie about this? I just heard you in there,” I kept saying “Why would you lie to me?” “Are you trying to make me think I’m crazy or something?”

He kept insisting; “I didn’t say anything. I don’t know what you’re talking about. You are acting crazy.” 

And I came upstairs and I saw…. The first thing I noticed was that his dog was sleeping under the coffee table. His favourite spot. He hadn’t been downstairs, so that’s when I really started getting worried. Our fight continued on and I ended up, I pulled out my camera, because, I wanted to record him. I wanted to show him how he behaves when he’s angry. ’Cause, I’d been telling him for a long time that he was just…. That he would get out of out of control angry over the stupidest things. So in my mind, I realised at the time…. I realised it made it worse, but to my mind, that was my way of having proof. Look, this is what you’re like. I started recording him and I didn’t notice at the time. But when I played the video back, I heard the same man saying; “You stupid bitch.” In that same tone. Same voice. It was the same guy. It wasn’t either of us. That’s when I really thought, oh my god. This is really real. So….

And I guess, that must have made you feel very threatened? And very vulnerable?

 Yeah.  Oh yeah. I felt like what ever’s in this house doesn’t like me and I had gotten that feeling for a long time. Like when I would see the guy in my dreams I felt like he just baited me. Like he just wanted to make me feel small. Like he, he was just taunting, like that was the impression I got from him. He was taunting me. So I heard that comment and it really, really scared me.

And it was later on, when the investigators came back again, they had me speak to a psychic over the phone, who was somebody who worked frequently with them. And she actually told me…. I can’t recall how we got on that subject of that comment, but she said; “You know, that comment he made, it wasn’t actually directed at you. That was directed at your boyfriend, because, he was abusive to his wife during his lifetime and he’s carried that guilt and regret with him over to the other side. And now he doesn’t like the way your boyfriend treats you. He was calling him a stupid bitch. Not you.” 

Well, that’s interesting. So why actually would…. But the question I have as a medium myself, is…. Is why would he say stupid bitch to you and not to your boyfriend?

Yeah, yeah that’s what I wondered also….

Hmmm. I would honestly take that with a grain of salt, to be honest.

Yeah. I didn’t really believe her at first, because I was downstairs by myself. And why would he say it down there? I think that maybe…. I think the impression that I got was that maybe he told her that he wasn’t saying to me…. But, I think at the time he obviously, he as angry with me for being in his house. And I think that’s probably a big part of why he said it, or maybe he was just abusive to women. He doesn’t like them? I don’t know?

I’ll give you my impressions of him later. I’m sorry for interrupting your flow Lauren, but I felt I had talk to that comment. Here’s how I work as a medium. I tell you how things are. Not what people want to hear. And maybe it’s the Kiwi, the New Zealander in me, but it’s better to give people information straight. Don’t sugar coat it, because, sugar coating it, doesn’t do anybody any favours.

Yeah. That’s true.

And I tend to feel that I…. I think her intentions were good. But I tend to feel…. It was more to comfort you. So you wouldn’t feel so personally attacked.

I, I honestly…. I …. That’s something I thought about quite a bit. I felt they all comforted me. I think they had good intentions, but I feel like they knew…. And I kept telling them so many times, that there’s something else here. It’s not just this friendly ghost you guys are trying to make it out to be.  There’s something else here that’s scaring me, it’s scaring my kids. It’s making us all uncomfortable.

Ok…. So you haven’t actually mentioned how this was affecting your children.

With my kids…. See the reason that I began to see him as not threatening, was because…. Well, first of all, I guess I should explain that after…. When she told me about, that it wasn’t directed at you, he’s feeling guilty and regretful for the way he treated his wife. She also said…. Oh gosh…. I, I ended up telling him that I…. Oh ok! Sorry, I keep losing my train of thought.

Another important thing she had mentioned was, she did…. He was also angry at me because I was going to force him to leave his home. And that, I really felt, was the absolute truth. That was what I had felt from the beginning, when I first began to sense him. When he was definitely angry at me and I wasn’t sure why. That made perfect sense.

But I ended up telling him, I understand if you have some unfinished business here and you’re not ready to leave your home. This is where you feel comfortable. You don’t have to go so long as you can make me a few promises. And what I had asked of him was, you need to stop bothering me in my sleep, number one.  Number two. Don’t ever scare my kids and don’t watch us changing clothes, or showering or anything like that. Watch over us, just like you watch over this house.

That’s great. You set ground rules with him. Perfect!

Alright. That was my conditions. If you wanna be here, you’re going to have to obey some rules out here. The thing is, the sleep walking, the sleep paralysis stopped immediately!  And this was something that I had complained about to my Doctor, my therapist, like all medical professionals that had put me on different medications and stuff like that. They couldn’t find a cause for it. They couldn’t find anything that would help it. But as soon as I told him that, stop bothering me in my sleep, it’s never happened since then. So that was that was something that definitely…. I know that it’s pretty hotly debated that sleep paralysis is something paranormal, but I know that it is, at least in some cases.

In some cases, absolutely it is. In most cases though it has definite physiological reasons, but in…. I don’t know what the statistics would be, but rarely it does have spiritual reasons, but mostly it’s physiological.

hmm. So yeah, and like he never scared my kids. He kept his word on that for quite a while. And that’s what made him gain my trust, because I thought ok. He’s obviously very strong and calls himself the hulk. He can shake furniture, he can push people and that kind of thing. But he never harmed my kids when he could. So that made me gain some trust for him.

There was another incident where, and I can’t remember if this was before or after we learned his name, but the investigators were over, and they had him cornered in a room. Like we were hearing him run up the stairs, down the stairs and we had just basically spent the whole night running after him trying to pin him down. And they finally kind of got him in a room, where he felt trapped, I guess. He actually pushed one of the investigators, the big one. And he kind of stumbled back a bit. You could hear this kind of whoosh as he pushed past him. You couldn’t see anything, but you could hear it and you could see him stumble back and he said; “Something just pushed me, for sure!” So he definitely, he could get physical.

There were times when they were over where like we would…. I had never felt touched by a ghost before, and I remember asking like; “Can you touch me? I’m just curious what it would feel like. And he did. And he just patted my hair and it wasn’t a threatening touch at all, it wasn’t menacing…. And it wasn’t even cold. Like people think that when they get touched by spirit that it’s going to be this icy touch, but it wasn’t. It just felt like a person’s touch. Touching my hair, it was the craziest thing.

But there were other times and I don’t know if for certain it was him, or someone else, but there would be times when I would be touched unexpectedly and it did scare me to death. I would be sitting on the couch and not expecting something, then all of a sudden I’d feel a finger running down my chest. So that was pretty terrifying. But for the most…. He didn’t bother my kids. But there towards the end, things were really starting to get bad. Everything was peaceful for a long while and I was single. It was just me and the girls in the house.

Right. So you and your boyfriend at that time had broken up?

Yes. We broke up almost…. I think it was the day after that psychic had said that comment was directed at him. So we broke up shortly after that and I was single for quite a while. And it was just me and the girls here. When I started dating someone new, that’s when it all started to go downhill. Looking back now, I really think a big part of it was he just didn’t like having men in his house. It always seemed to cause problems.

There was another incident when my daughter’s dad had come down with his dad and they came to stay the night. They were supposed to do something…. They had some business to do and they were going to be here for couple of days and they were staying at my house. I remember, I heard all this racket going on in the room with the blue, glowing windows and so I went in there and started recording for a few minutes. I didn’t listen to it right away. I was kind of scared to listen to it but, I finally did listen to it and it was the hulk, the man whispering; “He’s in the red. Get the right man.” And I was thinking, what does that mean? So I went back over the photos I had taken that weekend. We had taken several photos and their Grandpa was wearing a black t-shirt, and their Dad was wearing a red t-shirt. So I realised then, he was talking about their Dad. And I thought why was he talking about their Dad, and then I remembered. I had kind of told them that night about some of the stuff that was going on and kind of warned them. If you hear some weird noises in the night that’s probably why. And I remember their Dad kind of laughing it off and he was saying; “I’m not afraid of any ghost! He’s not going to scare me.” And this kind of thing, to just kind of taunt him.

So, that night he…. He went to bed. He slept in the girl’s room, and his Dad slept in the other room with the weird, glowing windows. He slept truly fine. But I stayed up late watching TV and I heard something. Like stomping across the floor. I didn’t even really bat an eye, because, I was so used to footsteps at this stage, that it didn’t even…. It barely registered with me. But I remember I, at some point I shut off the TV and went to bed. And then I came back up the stairs to get a bottle of water. And as soon as I opened the door, at the top of the stairs, I saw their Dad standing there in the kitchen. He was just kind of standing there in the dark, kind of peeking around the corner. I said, “What are you doing?”

And he was like, “Well, I was expecting you to come around the other corner, over there.”

I was like. “Why? What are you talking about?”

And he said, “Well, ‘cause, I just heard somebody up here. Somebody was stomping up towards me and I could hear them getting closer and closer. Then I heard somebody going hey!”

And I guess he jumped up and was looking around for somebody and there was nobody there.  But yeah after…. Pretty much, like after that he never really…. He didn’t make fun of it any more. He knew it wasn’t anything I was exaggerating, or making up things. He never, never said anything else about it.

But during one investigation, my sister had come down, and she’d never been to a paranormal investigation. So she kind of wanted to see what it looked like. So she came down and of course, all sorts of crazy things were happening. Even still, like she’s was just so logical and so scientifically minded. She was just sitting there, kind of like, “Man, a lot of this stuff is really strange. But I feel like there must be some explanation for it?” Kind of the same attitude I had. Like I couldn’t explain it, but I felt there had to be some reason. So OK, you’re not sure whether to believe it or not.

Anyway, that night she went to bed. She slept downstairs in the room I normally sleep in. I slept on the couch. And I just remember the next day, it was seven am, Saturday morning. She just came upstairs and said, “I can’t stay here anymore. I have to leave.”

I went, “What’s wrong?”

 She just said, “I have to leave.

And she had her suitcase and she just left. I was like what the heck was that about? And I called her and later on she had told me that she felt like she was being held down. And there was this man in her dream, or whatever, saying, “If you had such a problem, why did you come here? Why did you come here?” Something like that. It was the only time she’s ever had sleep paralysis. Like she actually looked it up. Like Googled it, to see what that was. She’d never experienced that and didn’t know what it was. And she said, “I’m pretty sure it was sleep paralysis and that’s a medical thing.”

Yeah of course.

And she said, “Yeah there’s a medical reason for it. I don’t know why it happened, but….” I mean, she really couldn’t explain it, and she knows she couldn’t explain it and she’s never been back since then. And that was probably…. That was over a year ago. I just thought, wow what are the odds? ‘Cause, I’d never had a problem with sleep paralysis either. It kind of blew me away that we would both have sleep paralysis. In the same house? In the same bed.? In the same scenario?

Yes. Interesting. Now, let’s go back to the investigation team for a little bit. So how long did this team come to your house? Over what period of time?

They continued to come, several times, for a period of time. At least six months or more. They would come pretty regularly. But after a while, I guess I kind of started to feel, kind of like what we talked about, that they were sugar coating everything. That’s how I felt. And I also kind of felt, they were hiding things from me for some reason. Like a lot of their photos and stuff. I still don’t have copies and I’m not sure why I’ve never gotten copies. Plus, some of their recordings and I just felt like there was just something and I don’t know what it could have been. They weren’t forthcoming.

So actually, you felt like you were being used a little bit?

Yeah, I really did.

So obviously this group never actually helped you in anyway substantial way. They just were there to collect evidence and you just happened to be there. By the sounds of it.

Yeah. That is how I started to feel and I became this really down and depressed. They weren’t helping. They weren’t getting to the bottom of it. I felt like they were just making the issue worse. It seemed to get more and more active. I don’t really know why, but it was just coming more active. But one of the huge things I forgot to mention, when I was talking to the psychic, another thing she talked about was his guilt over the way he had treated his wife. I remember asking him through her, “Is there anything you want me to tell her? Is there something you want me to do for you that would make you feel better?  Is there something you want to take care of?” And he wanted to tell her that he was sorry.

And I didn’t know who his wife was at that time, but I did find out through just asking around. So I got her name, and I actually found out where she lived. I remember, I wanted to go and talk to her. But, I was afraid to, ‘cause, I didn’t know what she would think. You know? Some people might actually get angry about it. Or think that I’m out to gain something from it. So I wasn’t sure how she would react. But I ended up…. I said, OK I’ve got to get this…. In my mind, I thought that’s why he’s still here, that’s why I’ve got to get this message out. It might help him cross over?

So I went to her door and then I chickened out, a couple of times. But I finally one day, I went to her door and there was a neighbour that was outside and she asked who I was looking for. And I told her and she just gave me this really serious look and said, “Well, I can tell that she really needs to hear what you’re going to say.” And it just like…. It still kind of gives me the goose-bumps. Like I don’t know how she knew that? That, or she said I can just tell she needs to hear this. But she just said, I can tell she needs to hear this.

So I went up to her door and I knocked and she answered. She was an elderly woman. I just blurted it out. I said, “I live in a house that you used to live in. I know you don’t know me, but I live in your old house and I’m being haunted by your dead husband. And he wants you to know that he’s sorry.” She started crying at this point and she said, “Yeah. He was really bad.” He was abusive to her during their marriage.

I tend to feel this chap had a bad drinking problem which exacerbated his violence.

Yeah he did and he would get angry at me, like even if I went to pour myself a drink. It became worse and worse. To the point where like towards the end, we would always hear like, we would hear this clinking sound. Like a bell or a clink, all the time. And I finally realised that…. I’m not for certain what all of it was, because I know that there were times when there were no glasses in the room and we were still hearing the sound of glass being tapped on.

Sometimes my glasses would actually explode. Or have holes poked in them somehow, like…. And there was actually one time when I had a glass with drink in it next to me and it just burst!  And I really feel like that was him and it was him trying to say like, stop drinking. And there was another time when I told him while recording, I said, “Why are you making me feel this way? ‘Cause, I’m feeling your emotions and you’re making me sad and angry.” And I happened to have a drink in my hand at that time and he said; “The bottle won’t fix this.”

And so that, that really…. And his voice that really just really angry and bitter when he said it and I know he definitely had a problem with alcohol. And hated alcohol. But anyway, his wife or ex-wife I guess, she had said that he had been really bad to her and she was crying a little bit and she said that she’d been wanting to hear that he was sorry, for a long time. But, then she said he lives on a farm with twenty-seven horses and she sees him every Christmas because of the kid. And I remember I left her house thinking, did I contact the wrong woman? What was that about? And I called her my neighbour and told her what had happened and she said, “Yeah. She’s got advanced Alzheimer’s and they’re getting ready to move her to a nursing home. Yes, within the following week. So, it’s pretty crazy that I was able to track her down before they moved her. “Cause, I don’t know where she would have went to, or if I would have been able to talk to her or what? I was really glad I got the chance to talk to her before she was removed from her house.

Right. Right. And that you listened to the promptings you were given. That spirit obviously gave you. And…. And that she was, for that initial period, long enough for her to get that message, was consciously aware and not in an Alzheimer’s state.

Right and that really like shocked me that she still remembered that abuse so clearly, being as out of it as she clearly was. ‘Cause, she believed that he was still alive. So it really threw me off. I couldn’t believe that.

Oh that’s so sad.

 Yeah. Anyway, another thing that we would hear quite a bit is the sound of a woman crying. And I would only hear it late at night. I would hear the sound of a woman sobbing and I would go to look for where it was coming from and it would stop and…. There were several times when I thought that maybe one of my kids had fallen out of bed, or something and I’d go running up the stairs. And of course, everything was quiet.

Then I would hear this woman crying, and sometimes I would hear her saying, no. She never communicated with me intelligently. So that’s when I started to feel like, kind of maybe she’s not an intelligent spirit like he is. I felt like she was residual energy. There was only one time when I kind of did get an intelligent response from her. We were talking with her, trying to figure out who she was, and we started to think that perhaps she was attached to a clock that we had in our living room. And I remember asking her, if I get rid of this clock will that set you free? Should I get rid of the clock? And I could hear her saying no, no, no. That was the only time that…. She still said the same word but it was almost like it was in response to what I was saying. Other than that, it was just something that we would randomly hear, and we couldn’t get her to communicate back and forth or anything like that.

Hmm. Right, so in your home, you’ve had footsteps. You’ve had banging. You’ve had sleep paralysis episodes. You’ve had sleep walking episodes. You’ve had disembodied spirit voices.  You’ve had poltergeist activity with your glass exploding, and there was something else, wasn’t there?

 Oh my gosh. There’s a lot of other stuff and I’m trying to recall it all.

I just get the feeling that there was one other specific incident where spirit moved something, or actually something about a door? Shut the door? Something like that. That’s what I’m feeling anyway.

It’s funny that you would say shut the door, because there was one incident where…. I used to constantly sage, trying to get rid of the activity in my house and it never really seemed to get rid of it. In fact, it only seemed to stir it up more. And I would also record during the sageing, which I probably shouldn’t have been doing….

Ah, no you shouldn’t.

But I guess in my mind it was like, I wanted to hear if there was something going on and if I didn’t hear anything, I felt like it would give me some peace of mind. So I would always record it. There was one time when I was saging and had always been told you leave the door open and stuff like that. It can go out the door. It has to have a way to get out.

So I had just opened the door and then I light the sage and I started to go about my normal process and right after I opened the door, I shut it. And my boyfriend was the only person in the house at the time and he asked me, “Well, why did you shut that door? You’re supposed to leave it open.”

I said, “Oh yeah. I don’t know why I shut that?” So I went and opened it back up.

But, when I listened to the recording, I actually heard right before I shut the door, I heard someone say, “Shut the door!” And then I shut it. So that scared me quite a bit. Like something…. ‘Cause, I didn’t consciously hear it. I didn’t realise that, that was being said at all, until I played that back, but I didn’t hear it. But, I carried out that action that it was telling me to do.

So that freaked me out quite a bit and I got to thinking about gosh, how many times has it influenced me.  To do something, that I was completely unaware of this was going on? But yeah, I mean, really towards the end it just started to get worse and worse. There were…. The feeling in the house was just terrifying a lot of times, like it felt like we were constantly being watched. There was an incident, where I know I was watched in the shower. I could feel something in there. And when I got out I heard something. I just knew there was something in there.

*One night, my daughter heard…. She got up to go to the bathroom and she had just shut the bathroom door. And then she could hear, like, a woman sobbing.  And someone stomped up to her and was yelling at her to shut up and she was just crying and somebody was just stomping around, yelling at her. She was so scared that she actually stayed in the bathroom until the alarm went off. And so it was like a couple of hours she was shut in the bathroom.

And that was when I was like, ok we need help! I was just so lost at this point. I was feeling like I don’t know what we’re ever going to be able to do, to get rid of this. I just felt so helpless. And then the night after that I actually was…. I was sitting on the couch, when I heard somebody, kind of walking around in the hallway. And I looked up, expecting to see one of my kids. But there was just this man. He was like…. He didn’t have any features or anything. He was like a stocky, kind of short, bald guy. And he was just standing there. Staring at me.

I don’t really want to say staring, ‘cause, he didn’t have like a face? But it was just this guy, just standing there. I just sat there looking back at him and thought what the hell’s going on here? How is this happening? And I don’t know how long we sat there like that, but eventually I heard it growl. Like this very angry, animal like growl and I don’t know if it walked back out? Or if it dissipated? Or what exactly happened? I just know that. It walked out. It stood there for a while and it growled.

And then, on another occasion the investigators that had been coming over, they had gotten to our house before we did. We were supposed to meet there at a certain time and we were running a bit behind. And so they got there maybe ten minutes before we did and were sitting outside. And the asked us…. I remember I got at text saying, are you guys home? And I said, “No. We’re on the way.” And when we got there we realised that they had been sitting out there and they asked if we were home, because, they saw somebody through the windows. And they saw kind of, almost exactly what I saw. A short, stocky, bald man.

Another neighbour that lived across the street from me, also commented about, she had seen the same short, stocky, bald man. Just through the front curtains, so that was pretty awful.

So do you think that this gentleman that you saw. This man that you saw. This being that you saw, was the hulk?

I don’t know. To this day, I don’t really know, because, there was another…. If it was him, then he could obviously take on different forms, ‘cause, several other people describe a man that would peer around the corners and the kind…. They described him as kind of looking like Kevin Bacon. Like, I don’t know if you know….

Tall and lanky. Yeah

They would all describe it as kind of a guy with spikey hair, kind of from the eighties. It wasn’t the same man they were describing as the short, stocky, bald guy. But, several people had said they had seen his face looking at them and that when they looked over, it just kind of disappears. So I don’t know if maybe…. I feel like that face looking at them was the hulk, but?

And, I’m not sure who it would be, but I did eventually…. I got in touch with another group and I will always be so grateful that I found them. I actually found them by chance, because I reached out one day on Facebook, in a group for empaths. And I posted about what was going on and I said I had this really hard thing to talk about. I don’t have a lot of people I can turn to on this. It’s kind of, it’s a difficult subject but I need to, because, out here we desperately need help. We’re just in a really bad situation and about how my daughter had stayed in the bathroom for half the night, because, she was just terrified to come out. And about how I’d seen this man who walked out and growled at me, and we were all scared. And I said I just…. I don’t know if anybody here knows of anyone that may be able to help us? I’m just looking for anyone or anything that can help.

Somebody referred me to this group. That was actually…. They were based out of Washington. Which is quite a long way from us. So I was kind of like, you know, I don’t know if this will work or anything? But I’ll give it a shot. So I reached out the them and I found out that they don’t actually have to come to me. They were…. They did astral travel.

Which I didn’t know a thing about that, so I was just kind of…. Just real sceptical about that, I really didn’t know anybody could help us at this point. But they have…. The have actually what they call an emergency response team, which anybody where there’s children involved. Any situation that’s just not good. That goes to the top of the list, and they’ll help out quickly. Which they did. They jumped on it pretty fast and they had somebody come in, through astral travel, she said…. She got back with me the next day. And she said, the first thing she encountered was a shadow person.

I didn’t know what that was. But I guess it’s a creature that’s never been a living person. That just kind of feeds off of negative energy. She said he wasn’t threatening but he just startled me. He was more of a boo kind of startley type guy.  And she said that she had gotten rid of him. And then she said, I also ran into the living. The spirit that was a living person. He killed himself in your home and that’s why he won’t leave. And he’s angry that you guys are in his home. She didn’t go into a whole lot of detail, but basically just said that he killed himself here. That noise of something rolling across the floor, that I kept hearing, that was the shell casing from the bullet wound.

And the woman that would cry, I really strongly believe, that that was his wife, whose actually still alive. But I think that just her…. Like the energy of just the sadness the abuse. The tragedy that happened here and her sobbing over it. I feel like that was just so…. Such an intense energy, that it just stayed. So that’s the best that I can explain it, I guess.

Right. And so they said that…. So what did they do then? They got rid of the shadow person and?

And they told me they had convinced the man to leave. But I thought, I can’t believe in that. But, I just didn’t believe they were going to be able to make him leave, because, he would resist. I knew that he was just really stubborn and looking back now, it sounds like he was all bad. But, he really wasn’t. And that I kind of, I started to…. I was kind of fond of him, until he started back in after me and that’s when the trouble started. When it was just me and my girls, I didn’t mind him at all. He didn’t bother me. He actually had, kind of a little, funny sense of humour and like, I really appreciated him not scaring my kids and stuff. And that made me trust him.

And it really wasn’t until…. Until I started dating somebody that I really began to feel it was a problem. But anyway, they said they had convinced him to leave and I thought, there’s no way they came in and convinced the guy to leave after one night. I just don’t believe it. It was oddly quiet for a couple of days and I thought maybe they did do something? But then, it started back up. And so I kept reaching out to them, I don’t know what’s going on? He’s not gone. He’s still here. I know he’s still here. I can hear him walking around, he’s constantly in my kid’s room and stuff and…. There was one night when she texted me. I was laying in bed and she texted me. “Is he up there messing with your kids right now?”

And that’s when I knew that she was the real deal, because it was right when I heard the footsteps start and he was up there at that time. And so I said like, yeah we’re sitting here listening to him right now. And she said. “Ok. I’m going in there ‘cause, this is not cool.” So she came in, I guess, and talked to him and she said, “Well, he should be leaving. He’s a stubborn one but he should be leaving.” And it took a while. It probably took about four to six weeks, where it just kind of tapered off and then it’s been quiet for the most part. Now and then I’ll still hear stuff. But for the most part, it’s really tapered off.

How long ago was it that, that happened Lauren? Like, how long ago was the last contact you had with this chap? How long has it been quiet?

I wanna say, let’s see…. I think they got rid of him…. I haven’t had any contact with them since May, so it’s been almost five or six months now.

Yeah, Yeah. Six months, nearly seven. So it’s been fairly quiet for you? And things have settled down for your girls?

Yeah, I think. My oldest especially. She had grown attached to the man. Like she would tell me that she would like, sit in her closet whenever she was…. When she was stressed out. She would always like, go to her closet and fall asleep. I don’t know why? But she still does it every now and then.

My son used to do that too.

But she would go in the closet and she would talk to him and it made her feel better. So she was attached to him. She didn’t want to see him go, but she understands now for sure, that it definitely, it just wasn’t a good situation anymore.

When this woman remotely viewed and visited your home, what did she say about the stocky man you saw?

She couldn’t give me any real answer on that. Which kind of, it bothered me, but I didn’t ask a lot of questions because at that point I was just so…. I just was like, whatever you guys gotta do, just do it! I just want this all to end. I want to be able to live a normal life. I deal with this most every day and I can’t deal with it anymore.

Another big thing they advised us to do was to not pay it any attention anymore. We weren’t supposed to report anything. We weren’t supposed to use any equipment or EMF detectors. We weren’t supposed to acknowledge the things that it was doing, to try to get our attention. So we didn’t speak about it in the house at all. It was just something that we…. It was a struggle at first but eventually we got to the point where we were able to just not pay it any mind. But yeah, I never really did get a clear answer as to whether the stocky guy was a living spirit, or a shadow person, or what?

Right. And how are you feeling now?

I feel a lot better than I did. But like, the past couple of days there’s been some incidents, where I got kind of nervous. I…. Like I heard something in my room yesterday. There was one time when I played a recording, ‘cause, I felt safe to go through and listen to all my recordings and I played one in the house. And I immediately heard somebody like stomping up the stairs. So I shut it off and said ok. No more. I’m not going to do that any more.  So I, kind of like PTSD, I have to change my life around, to…. To avoid triggering any activity, I guess?

That’s interesting. You shouldn’t have to change your life to avoid triggering activities. Here’s the thing. This is your space. You have legal rights to the house. And so you shouldn’t have to live…. Look at it this way Lauren, if you were living with another person, a guest. This person was in your house, a living person. Would you tip toe around them? Walk on egg shells around them in your own home? To suit them, simply because they were there?


No. So you shouldn’t do the same with…. Just because a person is in spirit, doesn’t give them anymore rights over you, then it would give a living person. Too many people give their power away. They think that because a person’s dead that you have to respect them. Or that you have to love them, even if they were unlovable, if they were…. By unlovable, I mean most everybody’s lovable to some degree or another. I mean, if they were people that were really nasty, or mean. Or drunks, or abusive. Or abusers, or heavy drug users. Their basic character does not alter once they die, until they pass over. And if they’re earthbound. If they’ve remained. Then their character stays the same. So you don’t…. You treat them like you would treat a living person. If they deserve your respect, you respect them. I mean, you would still speak to them politely. You would still be like courteous. You know? Like you would like to be spoken to. But you don’t take any shit.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So what I’m saying is, that you shouldn’t have to walk around like that in your own home and feel unsafe still. Because, obviously you still feel unsafe. So I’m going to give you a couple of ideas or tools, that may help you. First of all, you need to claim back your space.

Now I don’t know…. See, too many people give their power away. To groups. To people who they think know more than they do. To religious organisations, and I include spiritual groups in with this as well. When actually you have the power inside you to deal with this. It’s just our fears hold us back. And the key to dealing with anything like this is your intent. Your intent is absolutely everything.

You have to be crystal clear about what your intent is. Because, if there is any doubt in your mind, then that is what you are putting out…. For example, you’re spiritually cleansing energies from your home, but in your mind you are saying to yourself oh I hope this works? I don’t think it will. I’m not strong enough, brave enough, good enough etc. So that is the intent you are actually putting out, is your thinking it won’t work, so of course it won’t. Do you understand what I’m saying?

Yeah. That makes sense.

Ok. So, first you claim back your space verbally. This is MY home. This is where I live. This is MY space now. If you come into my space, these are the rules I expect you to follow. And you lay down precisely what you expect, what your boundaries are. For example, boundaries such as no causing members in the family to be frightened by their activities. You don’t want to hear their footsteps…. Whatever! Whatever is comfortable for you. Whatever is going to make you feel safe and secure. And those are your house rules. And you verbalise your rules. Like you did initially with him. And you say this is what I will do. This is what I will allow. If you do not abide by these rules, then you WILL leave this house!  And you need to use your Mummy voice. Know what I mean? Don’t be polite and gentle, be like a momma bear.

Right…. Oh there were times when I would…. When something…. I remember there was one time when my kids were washing and they heard the growl. And I came running in with my Mom voice and said, “You listen here! You don’t ever growl at my kids.”

Perfect! That’s the momma bear. Perfect. So that’s the voice that you use, the tone that you need to use. Respectful, but firm.


So when you were cleansing your home. Now, many people think that you can only use sage to cleanse a home. But actually, no! There are many things you can use to cleanse your home.  Salt and water is very, very excellent at cleansing. Many herbs, woods, resins. Herbs such as Rosemary, Bay, Basil. Woods, such as Sandalwood, Palo Santo. Resins, like sandalwood, copal, pine, frankincense…. Amongst others. These are all good substitutes to burn in place of sage. If you want to burn something. Even a stick of incense will do the trick. Because actually, it’s not necessarily what you use, it’s your intent behind it. And what you’re using is just a tool. It’s a ritual to help you focus your energy and your intent. Do you understand that?

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. So it doesn’t matter what you actually use. It’s your intent behind. It’s like pointing a laser. The ritual is the hand that helps points the laser. Ok? So it focuses and it sharpens your intent. So you don’t have to use sage or burn things. Actually, a lot of people can’t tolerate smoke. So salt and water’s excellent, or just plain water, or sea water, or water from a river. It’s your intent that matters. I mean, if you’re religious, you can ask a prayer over the water, or over the salt and water. But again, it’s focusing your intent. Like you could say something like; I ask that this salt and water be blessed and purified so that it will cleanse this house of any negative entities, beings, thought-forms, thoughts, intent etc.

So when you go to cleanse your place, I always tell my people. Open your doors. Open your windows. Open your cupboards, open your wardrobe doors. It’s an energy flow thing and this is just about the energy flow. But some spirits, some entities will go and find places to hide. Because, they don’t want to leave for whatever reason.

Yeah. That was a common…. When we would sage I would always hear someone whispering, “Hide!” Like throughout the whole time. Like several times someone would say “Hide, hide, hide.”  And that’s why I was just obsessively opening every cabinet. Opening every draw and getting every nook and cranny, because, you’re not going to hide in here!

Well done! Absolutely. OK. So when you go to cleanse, you verbally state your intent. Like you ask a blessing or a prayer over whatever it is that you are using. So you state what the purpose of that item is, if it’s salt and water, or burning herbs. That it will cleanse your home and property. Then you verbally state your intent, something like this. With this salt and water, with this smoke from this incense I will cleanse and remove any negative energies, entities, beings, thought-forms, thoughts, or intents, from this house. Any stale, residual energy, anything that is not here with positive intent, will be removed from this house.

So you verbally state your intent at the beginning, before you begin and as you go through the house, in each room. But. Not only that. Then you say something like; And as these negative entities, beings, thought-forms etc., etc., are removed, that they be replaced with positive, uplifting, harmonious, clean, fresh energies. That will uplift and encourage everybody that lives here. That will promote positive communication. That will promote love, peace, and harmony.

Yeah. I like that.

A lot of people don’t realise that it’s ok to get rid of the negative or stale energies. But you have to invite positive in as well.  So that’s how you cleanse. It’s not merely waving some smoke around. You need to be crystal clear about your intent and purpose. And you can do this. You can do this yourself. You don’t need to give away your power to somebody else, to some group or organization, to come and cleanse your home.

I’m all for that saying; “Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and feed him for life.” It’s all about empowering people to take back their spaces and do for themselves. Don’t give your power away, when you can do it yourself.

Yes, that’s very true.

Yeah. It’s actually a good idea Lauren to energetically cleanse the energies in your home regularly anyway Lauren. Because anytime there’s an argument in the home…. Think of old stale energies, like house dust, that settles in the corners of your rooms, on your windowsills etc. So, if there’s arguments, then after an argument you should cleanse the energies in your home. After somebody’s been sick in the house, cleanse the energies in your home. Do it on a regular basis. It’s as important to cleanse the energies in your home as it is to physically cleanse your house.

I know it’s very late there and you have work in the morning. It’s been awesome speaking with you Lauren. Thanks so much for sharing all that with my listeners and I, what an interesting lot of experiences. And pretty scary when you don’t know what you’re dealing with.

Right for sure. Thank you so much too.

Lauren’s experiences have not quite ended with the hulk. He was not removed from her home, in part because Lauren and her daughters had grown fond of him, and didn’t really want to see him go. And because he fears moving on. He fears moving on partly because of his manner of death and because mistakes in judgement he made when living. But who hasn’t made mistakes or bad decisions in their lives?

Lauren in particular had not wanted to let him go, because she felt compassion for him, and had grown fond of him, despite her fears. We had quite a large discussion about this which has not been included in this episode, because it is private and personal to her. The only part of that discussion that remains in this episode, is the part about cleansing energies from one’s home. And I kept it with Lauren’s permission, because I felt the information might be useful for some of you out there.

Lauren now has the tools and knowledge she needs to be able to resolve this ongoing situation to her satisfaction. I feel it is so very important to give people in her situation, not only the tools, so they can help themselves. But also knowledge. Knowledge is power, and it helps people in her situation to be able to regain their sense of some control over something that until then had been out of their control, at least to their level of understanding at that stage.

I have concerns about the first investigation team who came into her home to investigate. It is obvious to me that they were not there to help her, as they offered her no assistance in removing or cleansing her home. They were just there to get ‘evidence’ and it left Lauren, after a while, feeling used.  This is a bit of a bug bear of mine, by all means investigate, obtain evidence, but help the homeowner, explain to them what you are doing and why. Give them copies of every scrap of evidence you capture at their home and do not use it to promote your group in any way without the home owner’s permission. These are simple basic rules really and one would think, common courtesy. And obtain help for them. Whatever sort of help they need. Don’t leave them stranded.

The second group…. I can hear some of you out there saying how can this possibly be really helpful? How can it really work? Astral travel? Remote viewing? Yes, you can actually help people remotely. You don’t always need to be physically present. There is no time or distance for energy. Everything is interconnected really, but you do have to know what it is you are doing. And the lady did think she had gotten the hulk to leave, but Lauren, really wasn’t ready to let go of him, despite her fears and so he stayed. Because, basically she’d given him permission to stay. Quietly in the background, but still there in her home.

Now Lauren understands he needs to move on so he can receive the healing he so desperately needs. And she is ready to let him go. She has the tools, she has the knowledge, and I know she absolutely can do this. I will keep you all updated as she lets me know.

Our musical score today is called Bittersweet by Poddington Bear. Licensed under creative commons under Creative Commons, for more information check out this episodes page on the podcast website at: www.walkingtheshadowlands.com.

If you have any suggestions for topics you might like me to cover in upcoming episodes, then please don’t hesitate to contact me. Or if any of you have any questions, or any comments that you’d like to make, or experiences that you might like to share with myself, and my audience. Then just email me at shadowlands@yahoo.com

If you enjoyed this episode, then please leave a positive rating, and don’t be shy to leave a written review on Apple Podcasts. Or on your chosen podcasting platform. Who knows? You may hear your review read out at the end of one of these podcasts. And, of course, so you don’t miss out any episode, make sure you subscribe on your favourite podcasting platform. This podcast is available on all free, podcasting platforms, and available from iHEART radio as well.

If you don’t have a smartphone, then you can listen to the episodes from the podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com. For those hearing-impaired, there is a full written transcript of each episode on the website. So you don’t miss out at all. Tell your friends! Tell your family! Tell your workmates about our show! Encourage them to listen, and to subscribe also – the more the merrier!

Check out our FaceBook page ‘Walking the Shadowlands”, our Instagram feed of the same name, and our Twitter feed @shadowlands10. Like and follow for hints on our upcoming episodes.