Hi everyone. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week for the final episode in this two-part series on the famous ‘Tic-Tac’ video and the things that were witnessed by members of the USS Nimitz Strike force.

For those of you who were not present for the first episode of this two-part series then this is a very brief background. In November 2004, 90 miles South-West off the coast of Mexico near Baja, California, in the USA, the U.S.S. Nimitz carrier strike group was conducting two weeks of routine training and aerial defence exercises when unexplained events occurred that forever have altered the lives of the men and women on board these ships who were witness to these episodes. What began as a routine naval training exercise, ended up as one of the world’s best documented UFO sightings in the 21^st century. Witnesses included very highly trained military personal, amongst them very, very experienced radar operators and fighter pilots. These were men who were in charge of the world’s then, most sophisticated and advanced flight and sensor technology that existed in the world at that time. I do suggest that you go back and listen to the first episode before this one, if you have not already heard it. A video of part of this incident was ‘leaked’ to the world and has been the subject of intense speculation since. Are you ready to continue this journey with me into this part of the Shadowlands? Good. Then let’s begin.

The Nimitz Encounters – Part 2

Patrick Hughes was a former Petty Officer, aboard the USS Nimitz, in the role of an Aviation Technician. VAW-117. Here is Patrick’s experience.

Patrick Hughes

Marianne: Ok. Firstly, thanks again for joining us today. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to share with myself and my listening audience the things that you witnessed during this episode of the USS Nimitz and the Tic-Tac video. It’s pretty famous throughout the world now. But there are still many, many people, particularly in my part of the world who may not…. Or may only have a little bit of knowledge about it. So to hear from people who were actually present during the events and were part of the experiences, that’s a really huge thing to me. So perhaps Patrick we could start like this. Maybe you could tell us about your background, what your role was during these encounters and then lead into the incidents. I won’t talk too much. I’ll just ask the odd question every now and then. I’ll just let you share your story with us all.

Patrick: Yeah. I joined the Navy in two thousand. I got out in two thousand…. Just before two thousand and eleven. So I was in just under eleven years. In two-thousand-four, I was stationed with VAW117 the Wall Bangers. We were based out of California. A place called Point Mugu which is about an hour north of LA. And in the fall of two thousand and four we were doing basic work-ups. Training cycle to prepare for deployment in two-thousand-five on the Nimitz, with the Nimitz strike group. It encompassed us, the Princeton and a few other ships. At the time I was a second-class Petty Officer. I might actually have just made second class. I just got promoted, essentially.

But, I was expendable, I worked on the E2C Hawkeye. It’s a small looking airplane with a ufo-looking object sitting on top of it, which is actually the radar. And I was responsible for the radar and the communications, navigations, data links, some other stuff that’s in there. Some classified stuff, you know? All the fun stuff. So, it was a plane that kept us pretty busy.

And in two thou…. Like I said, when the newick(?) stuff happened. I didn’t know about a lot of it until well after the events, when I actually got in touch with Gary Voorhis and Kevin Day and the other guys. I didn’t know the extent of the story. I thought it was an isolated, essentially one or two flight event that we had with some of the pilots, but they’d actually been tracking the objects for the whole, almost week, give or take…

I didn’t realize it had gone on for that long. I thought it was just like a couple of days. Kevin Day, who’s probably got the most time with the events, so to speak. Has said it’s just about, just about a week.

But we were operating off of Southern California. About ninety miles or so. But we were actually more toward Mexico then we were towards California. But specifically the Hawkeye, which is the radar plane was up there. A friend of mine who in the Nimitz encounters documentary that Dave Beaty did, was referred to as Roger, was actually airborne on that flight. The same time as mano (Commander) Fravors intercept. Mano Fravors’ been on the news. He was one of the first people to go public about this. And he actually visibly saw the object. But the tic-tac actually formed up very briefly with the Hawkeye and took off. So I’ve spoken with Roger and a couple of the other people who chose to remain anonymous in that airplane, so I know most of their stories. And it was very unnerving for them to have something like that just pop up next to the airplane and take off just as quick.

So when that airplane had returned we do a bunch of normal stuff when that plane has hit the deck. We check it, make sure it hasn’t broken. Nothing fell off. All the screws are still there. We also take…. We have some classified hard drives that are in the airplane. They run the airplane, but they also have the capability to record a whole mess of information from the airplane during the flight. From the radar to the sensor ccefm, a whole bunch of initials that I can confuse everybody with. But because of what we were doing, we were recording a lot of flights and I knew that flight was recording. It didn’t make any difference until well after the fact why, why I remember that they were recording. 

But when they got back, I take those classified hard drives out and go back inside the skin of our ship to our little workspace. We put them in our safe. And within fifteen – twenty minutes of the plane returning and me getting back down, my commanding officer comes knocking at the door. Who normally doesn’t come over to our part of the ship. If he wants to talk to us, he says come talk to me and we go to him. Having him over there was unique enough, but with him were two uniformed Air Force officers. Who were not on the ship before, to the best of my recollection. And I can explain why I have a pretty good idea they weren’t there in a minute. So if I don’t get back it it remind me.

Marianne: I will.

But he basically knocks on the door with those two uniformed Air Force officers and says I need all the ah…. We call them bricks, ‘cause, they’re actually quite heavy. But basically it’s a big case with a hard drive in it. But he asked for the bricks out of the safe from that flight. And it’s not normal for them to do that. Normally we know ahead of time if someone’s coming to get them. So I take them out. I go to sign them out, ‘cause, we have a log book that tracks them all. He’s like don’t worry about it, basically give them to me.

Oh, so he overrode protocol?

Yes and no. He overrode, like standard procedure. But, being the commanding officer every piece of classified material in that command belonged to him anyways. So, it’s kind of like stealing from yourself. So yes it was different from normal protocol but it wasn’t…. He wasn’t like breaking any laws or anything. Which I know has confused some people when I tell that part of the story. So he takes those. He takes his two little Air Force friends that I’d never seen and that’s the last I ever saw of those bricks. We never got them back. They never told us more of the story.

But, Roger who was on that flight, shortly after our skipper there came to take everything, finally returned from debrief. ‘Cause, you know they do talking about stuff that happened and what they could have done better. And he starts to vaguely clue us into the fact that something happened. But because he actually signed an NDA and the aircrew that he was with actually signed NDAs, that’s why they’re not saying anything. He really couldn’t tell us what was happening. That was the last we discussed of it for a long time, because, we were told not to talk about it.

They had the…. The ship had some fun with the story. The ship has a plan of the day. Which is almost like a daily news paper, with a whole bunch of lists of events. And it’s usually got a little cartoon in it. So it was a UFO themed cartoon the next day. The movie channels on the ship happened to be playing, The Men-in-Black, some other…. Basically they were poking fun at all the officers who saw it.

Back to the two Air Force officers. The reason, I’m pretty confident they weren’t there before, is because when you’re out at sea there’s only two ways onto the ship. A helicopter or a C2 Greyhound. Which is a sister airplane to the one I worked on.  I actually spent a lot of time working on that airplane and we took care of it when we were out to sea. So we would almost always see who was getting on and off the back of it. I never saw them get on or off before then. Two Air Force officers are going to stand out on an aircraft carrier. You know it’s…. Despite the fact that there’s almost six thousand people on an aircraft carrier when you’re out there long enough you tend to still know who’s who.

Yeah right, of course you do.

You may not know their face, you may not necessarily know their name, but you know the people that are there. So they weren’t there. They never came off the Cod. Pretty sure they came on board via helicopter. It wasn’t until much later and I finally connected with Gary Voorhis who was on the Princeton, that we kind of made sense of the whole how did they get to the ship thing. Because, he had some people come to his ship to take his classified stuff. Pretty much the same type of data recordings that I had. And they flew out on a helicopter, ‘cause, that’s all you can get on the Princeton, is helicopter. But the helicopter on a carrier lands and takes off so often

That you wouldn’t notice it?

Yeah, it’s kind of hard to keep track of people getting on and off, ’cause, sometimes the pilots switch out. So it’s very easy to miss somebody coming on that way. Yeah so when I finally got the confirmation that they took stuff from him, it made a lot more sense. To how they got things. So that’s for the most part…. I never actually saw the tic-tac object. I kind of wish I did.

Yeah, yeah. But if you did, you probably would wish you hadn’t.

Both Gary and Patrick then went to to tell me about their personal thoughts and musings about what they experienced. I admit, that I was a bit surprised, but at the same time not – if that can actually make any sense about what their conclusions actually were. Let’s begin with Gary’s thoughts.

Gary Voorhis

Gary: So…. Now that’s one of the small pieces that kind of lends me to believe that it might have been our own tech. You know because, alright, so follow me along my rabbit hole. Down my rabbit hole where this is the most logical explanation I’ve come up with for exactly what these objects were. Now I do believe in that ­– in Drakes equation. I believe that there, that it’s very…. It’s very impractical to believe that there has never been anybody more smart…. Ah, smarter than us before us. You know? I mean, there could have been civilizations that already had interspace travel well before we even existed.

Marianne: Yeah, absolutely.

But, I also believe that these, that any of these species of Aliens or whatever you want to call them probably don’t have faster than light travel. ‘Cause, I mean, that level of engineering is even beyond what we were seeing with these Tic-Tac’s. So, to have faster than light travel is probably the goal of every species at some point or another. But I believe that they are just multi-generational space travelers. Like they take them…. It’s still, even at the tremendous speeds they can go…. You know, if we even went to Alpha Centari, or you know, any of these places where a lot of people claim there’s going to be civilizations, you know it’s going to take ten ­– twenty generations of people, travelling at those speeds, to even get here. So if they had…. Say they had visited our planets and they left, say hey we’re going to come back. You know, they have every intention of coming back. But that’s you know, twenty generations.

And you’ve got to remember, time is relative to the position in space, you are. So their twenty generations could be you know…. The earth could be supernovared by the time they get back.  It takes ten billion years for the supernova to start. You know they could just be getting back, saying oh man we missed em! You know? So….

Or, there’s also the theory that time can fold in on itself.

Well, time is completely relative to the gravitational position in which… you know? Whatever, it’s been proven that it can be affected by gravity and it can be affected by mass. So, and that’s actually the basis of the fact that you can go back in time.  So the fact that I think that…. You know, I really do think that this planet’s probably been visited at some point or another. I think that if they did, they probably left monitoring systems.

Now, what we think as underwater bases and alien spacecraft and stuff like that, it’s a good possibility that if they…. Now this is just going down the lines, that if there is Aliens. I’ve no proof. This is just my thought process. I have, I have so many different lines of thought about it…. Just knowing that this level of tech exists. Opens up too many lines of though for me so….

Yeah, it does.

So I’m saying, if there is Aliens and they have visited and they did want to monitor this planet, well what would we do? Right now anything we want to keep an eye on, what do we do? We put drones in the air, we keep monitoring systems. We put cameras up, we do something. Well, if you’re that advanced you don’t need all the cameras and stuff. You just do one drone. It has you know, every sensor system, you know? Things that we can’t even imagine.

One of their drones could probably monitor everything going on in the earth at one time, you know seismically, basically general status of the earth itself.  And so, say one of these things does malfunction and crash, like say in the fifties, in a desert, in the United States. Or in the sixties in the middle of the Tundra, out in the middle of Russia, or in India. Or in any of these other places that have had these crashes and you know sightings where they’ve see ships crash. So this is still a high level of tech, even if it is a drone.  And who knows, they may even have biochemical tech. Meaning that what’s inside, may look alive.

It could be alive? Because, they may have figured out that a live brain, or a reproduced physical…. You know, the physical synapses of our brain are way better than a computer. We can extrapolate things that a computer can never even come up with as a concept, because, of the way our brains work. We are the best computers on the planet. There’s nothing better than our brains.

Even quantum computers don’t even come close. The only difference is; the quantum computer can be focused on one thing. The amount of information our brains process in a day, even a dull brain surprises. I mean we’re talking about terabytes of information a second. So I mean there’s no more powerful computer on this planet than our brains. So who says they don’t have bio-tech based off that same type of neural pathways. To us, it looks like something that’s alive inside a drone. To them it’s just an inert drone with no actual soul, ‘cause, they grew the damned thing.

That’s actually…. Well you know that’s actually a very valid line of thought. Yeah. Absolutely.

Right. So now say they did come here. They left monitoring systems. Well, all systems malfunction.  So you’re going to have crashes from time to time. Say they do have a level of tech where they can keep themselves completely…. They can come and go without us ever seeing them, without ever knowing that they’re here. And then all of a sudden, well, we get a hold of a little bit of their tech. At first we really don’t know what to do with it. Especially in the fifties and the sixties. You know? But, all of a sudden in sixty-nine, we’re hitting the moon.  I mean, less than ten years into a space program? I mean, really going from V2 rockets to the moon, in less than ten years.

Well we went from computers…. One computer that took rooms and rooms and rooms to a little micro-chip in how long?

 Ah less than twenty years.

Yes. Exactly.

Oh yeah. Yeah it’s the level of tech and I think it’s kind of as our tech got more…. You know they get an idea from the tech, then obviously it would work and then it would get just a little bit better, a little bit better. And as our tech gets more wild, it’s because they figured out more things with this other tech. It’s all of a sudden you now have thirty years of different generations of these flying craft that they’ve been trying to develop. Now all of a sudden that accounts for your triangle ones. That accounts for your round ones. That accounts for your orbs. That accounts for your…. All of a sudden they decide they’re going to do proof of concept on a new gravitational system. To see how well it goes up against what we, our best right now.

You know, they know right where our battle group is. They know that we’re not armed.  That all they’re going to have is CATAM missiles, which is basically just fixed missiles that just look pretty. They don’t leave. They can’t be shot; you know? I think they might have some rounds in their machine guns, but unless they’re fired on, they can’t fire back. So, they come in. They just float around to see what we’re going to do. See what we can do about it. You know, all of a sudden seven days goes by and finally they say well ok, we gotta go in and intercept these things, see what’s going Gary: on. Finally, they intercept them and we can’t do anything. Literally, we can’t…. We can’t even keep up with them to shoot them! You know? So all of a sudden, proof of concept done!  The systems work great. Let’s get back to the hangar.

Exactly! And I spoke with Patrick Hughes the other day and he expressed the same ideas – in different words of course. He felt that it was likely our technology. Because, like at the time that you guys had these experiences, you guys were the best technology there was, in the world.  And then along…. I don’t know how many years later, the other video of the gimbal? Is it the gimbal video?

Yeah, that was in two thousand fifteen I think. Off the coast of Florida.

Yeah. That was another exercise and along came more sightings.

Yep another situation where they’d know exactly where we were, what we were doing. That we would have training missiles

Exactly. And that would explain why the command of your ship, of the exercise in fact, wasn’t overly concerned about what was going on? Because….

They may have been told not to be.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And then they may just have been waiting for the go ahead, to go ahead and do the interrogation. You know? And then…. I mean a lot of things just don’t make a lot of sense about this whole thing. There were very few people that had to sign non-disclosures and it was only…. It was only some people who had real up and close information and personal…. Like the people like Patrick Hughes. He’s a good buddy of mine and he’s told me about you know, some of the…. Some of the more…. You know, a lot of the details, even stuff that he can’t talk about, you know? ‘Cause, we can talk to each other about classified

Yes of course.

But, and you guys aren’t missing out on the classified stuff. A lot of it’s just boring, you know monotonous ok, you know, well we had the R patch in and we did that dah dah dah dah. You know, just going over the things we did. It’s all…. It’s all just the nuts and bolts stuff. I mean, some of the people out there are really going to want to know that stuff, but when it comes down to it, it’s still classified.

Right, absolutely.

Yeah and it doesn’t surprise me they had somebody on the helicopter to get the data, because, if you were doing…. Trying to do proof of concept, of course you’re going to go and get the data so that you can analyze it.  

And as soon as possible. Yeah

Yep. You’re going to go and get all the data. You’re going to bring it in and your going to put it first, as what you get off of it…. What you’re getting off your craft you’re trying to do proof of concept with. So the craft saw this, this is what they saw. So where can we make it better?

Right. That absolutely makes sense to me actually. From a lay persons point of view and….

Now, the only reason I kind of ended up going down that path, is just because you know, being not a Ufologist, or somebody that really studies it. It’s kind of like more people, just interested. You know?7. I was always an X-Files fan, but I wasn’t running around staring at the sky every night. Hoping I get abducted, I was never one of the people like that. Like I said, I’ve always been a sceptical believer in just about everything. And it did excite me, all this stuff that was happening, but I guess it was mostly just in more of a scientific way. ‘Cause, it just kind of like…. It opened my eyes too what’s possible.

I absolutely understand that.

And you know, so I got very excited about that. I didn’t even care where it was from. I was just like oh my god! You know? Gravitational systems for propulsion exist! You know, I was holy shit…. ‘Cause, that was the only way I could explain how they moved. ’Cause, they had to have been working outside of gravity.

Yeah, well the turns they made. The g-forces would have splattered the pilots against the walls of the ship, wouldn’t they? If anybody was piloting them?

Yeah, a human body wouldn’t be able to take that kind of force, unless they were being protected by something. Now you know that could be like the gravitational inertia. You know? So if they’re not being affected by gravity on the inside of the container, then there is no inertia. So you could take a right turn. You could do anything and you’re not going to feel it. So that’s why it was so amazing to me. And that’s why if it doesn’t have gravitational systems and it was using some other type of propulsion…. That’s why I have to think it would be some type of a drone.

So that’s, you know, it’s either more advanced, very advanced drone technology that we’ve been working on for probably centuries. But, you know if we did recover a craft over in Roswell, then you know, it would explain, you know all the different tech that’s come out. I mean in two thousand and…. Actually just in two thousand would you ever have thought you could do what you can do with an iPhone?

No! No exactly.

I remember when the razor phones were like – phew! I got me and my titanium razor phone, you know, my flip-phone. Check it out! I can do emoticons on this and automatic smiley faces. Check it out! I can do emoticons on this and automatic smiley faces.

Yeah, they were the hottest toys… Yep. I had my flip-top. And that was really big then. Yes, but you are right.

So our technology just keeps going. Just spiralling faster and faster. And I truly believe that once the primary consumers, which are the baby boomers right now. When the baby boomers have passed on and it’s now the people in their thirties and forties who are the primary consumers, that those people can consume technology at a far, faster rate.

Yeah absolutely

So once the commercial market can consume at that fast rate, I think you’re gonna see a major boom in tech. And you’re going to start seeing what’s actually out there. I mean some of this foldable technology and bio LED’s, which are now called OLED’s, or Organic LED’s, I’d seen that tech twenty years ago. And it wasn’t anything fancy or anything like that. But I mean, I worked in an industry that, where you hear things about stuff that’s being developed.

I never touched it, or saw it, or put my hands on it, but you hear about them working on a bending, on a screen that bends and it’s like, why the hell would you want to bend a screen? And then you see something like “Minority Report’ that’s like hmmm…. Now I see. Now I want the bendy screen. Yeah so, and now they have it. It’s out! You know?

I can see…. I can see that this from your technical perspective more than a personal perspective. It’s made you think about a whole pile of different possibilities. On a personal level how has this affected your life?

See it’s hard to say how this, this one event has really affected my life? ‘Cause, this one event was just like the last thing that happened to me in the military and then I started my civilian life. I worked as an engineer in San Diego and then I moved over the Florida. Then I kind of moved around a little bit inbetween, but it’s always kept me in my private work always thinking. I always have these equations running in my head. How it’s possible? It’s like, you know things like that and you know stuff I’ve seen with high-level acoustic testing that they do. Being able to displace matter with just using acoustics, things of that nature. These all could provide propulsion, weaponry, stuff like that. All high level physics that I try to…. I always just…. I think it just opened my mind more than it was. For a long time, you’ve got to remember, who the hell’s going to believe you?  I mean, so I…. I mean generally unless I had a couple of pints with you and you were a good, you know; a good friend, I may not even tell you the story.

Yeah and that would be fair call on your part. Because, I mean there’s been a culture that’s deliberately been cultivated where people who share their experiences whether they’re in the military…. Well in the military I’m they’re letting you? But you didn’t have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, which actually says something big. That you didn’t have to sign anything.

And nobody talked about it for a long, long time and I mean, I think that’s kind of…. And even now the Navy came out and it’s such big news, that basically just proved our credibility, it still doesn’t really feel like a lot…. It’s not really a big deal. I think people are just so numb from just everything. There are so many horrible things going on, there’s…. You know, people are focused on all the bad stuff that is happening. It’s like, really people? Believe me, it’s on…. It’s still the best time of human history. You know, there’s still bad things that are going to go on…. So how many billions of people on this planet? Thirteen billion people? Out of that thirteen billion people, there’s going to be a lot of bad apples.

Yeah there are

And when you get all these people living in tight quarters and the over-populated classrooms, they just…. With over-population you’re just going to get a lot of mental illness.

Yeah you are, yeah. Humans are never meant to be crowded. They’re not creatures that are designed to be living in crowded spaces.

They’re designed to be social, but not necessarily need to be crammed into, you know ghettos and bad neighbourhoods. When a human feels hopeless, well, that’s just it. You’re hopeless, so that’s one thing that I think that definitely has changed about me, and that is that, even though I remain pessimistic and a bit of a sceptic on a lot of things I’m never gonna…. Unless you come off completely, just absolutely a nut job…. Cause….You’ve, everybody’s run into people like that and it’s like they’re so passionate and so…. They want you to believe them so badly that it’s very hard to even believe them.

And its just like…. That’s probably why a lot of us come across as more like, well these guys barely even believe themselves so…. You know, the things that happened, they’re just…. They were so amazing at the time and yet it was so downplayed that you just kind of like, well you know what, where am I going to work when I get out? 

Yeah yeah exactly. If they had made a big deal out of it, it might have been a different situation. I actually had an interview with a chap…. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this case? There were two US Air Force bases in the UK. One was called Bentwaters, the other was called Woodbridge.

I’ve heard of the Bentwater one.

Yeah. I interviewed a chap who was a member of the security police there and he had Top Secret clearance. He was involved in that incident, but he had never spoken in public before. He spoke to me about it and I felt really, really…. Oh my heart just ached for this poor chap. He’s got physical illnesses he’s dealing with from exposure to whatever it was he was exposed to at that, in that incident. That’s directly attributable, like he’s developed thyroid cancers to a degree that the doctors told him that they only ever see in people that have been exposed to massive amounts of radiation. He was only nineteen, so he was just a kid you know? And they had their debriefing. They were basically told they had to keep their mouths shut. There was no counselling, no body they could talk to about what they had experienced. Nothing you know?

And back then, they barely even knew about a lot of the different radiations, or even how to block them.

Yeah, yeah exactly.

Back then, lead jacket. That’s it!

Anyway, that’s kind of way off the track, but I was just interested in comparing how you’ve dealt with this, compared to how he dealt with it.

I deal with it very pragmatically.

I can see that.

I don’t really care if people believe me or not. Then that’s just, it is what it is. Either you wanna hear the story. You wanna know what we know, we’ll tell you. We’ve basically got together and ‘cause, there’s stuff we’ve heard here safe from other people and stuff that people we do trust, but we can’t …. We don’t know…. We can’t validate it because we don’t have contact with those people. So we don’t talk about it. We let it fall, if we do get a hold of those people…. I talked about the USOs where you know it was being tracked under water, because, it was second hand knowledge that I got from somebody else and I made it very clear in most of my interviews that this was coming from another person, this is not first hand knowledge. ‘Cause, I stayed mostly over where the sonar systems were whenever I was kind of being a fly on the wall when these things were going on you know so, anytime they were doing the tracks or there were too many important people on deck, I’d be…. I’d just kind of slink over to an area where they can’t quite…. You know, nobody bothers to go to sonar, ever, so…. And it’s just a little space right in combat, so you know, you can kind of hide over there, ‘cause, there’s enough equipment to hide behind.

I have just one final question for you Gary and that is why do you feel that your Government has finally come out and acknowledged that yes, these things are real, but we don’t know what they are. Why do you think they’ve come out and said that now?

Well I guess, hide in plain sight. Easiest way to deal with something is to admit that it’s real and move on. And then everybody’s like…. ‘Cause, I mean everyone in the back of their mind is yeah, of course we think that it’s real. Then of course they come out and say it and it’s not that big of a deal anymore. We’ve been watching X-Files and movies and ‘The day the Earth stood still’ for what how many friggin decades? Just like with the mass violence, we’re all just numb to it at this point.

That’s true. That’s very true. People become very numb to it and that’s quite sad actually.

Yeah the desensitization of the mass population.

So it’s going to be interesting to see what happens next what else your government is going to….

Well, you’ve got to remember there’s been a lot of times in the past history, the congress has been addressed by serious situations like this. And you know, they’ve even had congressional hearings throughout the decades. They’ve had things that were even further along than we are now and nothing ever happened from them, so…. Yeah, I would love to see disclosure, full disclosure, but I don’t think it’s going to come from the States.

Oh no. I don’t think it’s going to come from the States either, to be perfectly honest.

I think…. I think a country like Iran, or a country like North Korea, or a country that basically just doesn’t give a shit. They’re going to be the ones who like parade a UFO across a…. Look what we got! You know?

Yeah, or the beings that actually operate the UFO’s is more to the point, ‘cause, I noticed they whilst they validated that they were real, they didn’t say…. There was no mention of who operates them, or who makes them. And….

Yeah basically, that’s the whole point, they’re just like, they’re unknown. We have no idea who they are. You know they’re not going to come out and say; yeah we think they’re aliens. Or yeah, we think it’s some other country with alien technology. Or they’re not going to say, yeah that’s our reversed engineered technology, that we’ve been tinkering with for thirty years…. So I mean, you can’t really expect them to do that. And the whole new procedures from the Navy for reporting these things, it’s basically the same procedure, but now public.

Right, right. So they’re not going to get laughed at anymore, although, they probably still will.

And I think the other point, to changing the name from UFO to…. Oh what is it they changed the name too?

UAP

UAP is so that the, all of the people doing the freedom of information acts have to resubmit everything to them with a different name on it.

Yeah, there’s probably that aspect to it. I agree

Basically. So don’t ever think that the government’s not being shady. There has to be a level of shadiness to protect secrecy and as much as we all wanna know what they are? Where they’re coming from? If it sacrifices any type of safety of the United States, or even of anybody, I am not for disclosure. I am for disclosure under the situation that it’s not going to cause mass panic. It’s not going to cause anything and I don’t think we as a people are ready for disclosure.

Well, you know it might actually be taken out of the Governments hand’s. They might not actually have a say in the matter.

Well, that’s if they’re not in contact with them

Yeah exactly.

Yeah, yeah ok…. Say if they…. Say my theory about them visiting and leaving and coming back, you know, and not having faster than light travel. You may be damn right about that. It could be any day now. They’re just like hey yeah, we’re back! So how’ve you guys been doing?

Yeah, yeah… I have noticed over the past two years that your government in particular. All the world governments. But, your government in particular has been drip feeding people little bits of information, little bits of information and then finally this. So yeah, I’ve noticed particularly over the past two years that this has been occurring, but anyway Gary, I know it’s late there and I’m really grateful for the time that you’ve spent with me today. And I’ve really enjoyed listening to you. I think you guys are really awesome coming forward and sharing this with the world.

And I’m sure you’d already found me on – ah what is it? On twitter and messenger. Any body that has questions, especially prior military guys, I definitely encourage them to come out. To come forward with anything that they have. We actually have a non-profit started to maybe try to fund situations where we can get these guys together to talk about their situations and we’re going to be doing expeditions off the coast of San Diego, near San Clemente where we actually had the sightings. Here hopefully in the next couple…. In the next year, right now, that they’re looking at doing it. But, we’re going to get out there and we’re basically going to look to see if there’s anything special about that area.

How awesome! Oh that’s awesome that you all are doing that. It’s like a support network. Do you want to to give out your Twitter and your FaceBook.

Yeah, you can link that and then I think it’s @GaryVoorhis for Twitter and then you already have my FaceBook.  And I encourage anybody who has any questions, they can…. I’m available, but it’s just remember I get it …. As you send your responses I get to them as I can get to them. So it could be a couple of weeks, up to a month or so before I can get back to some people. But I will always eventually give some type of response.

And is there a website for this group that’s been put together?

I think right now, it’s still in the process of being built, for the website itself. Now I won’t accept anybody’s friend requests, but I do open up my messenger for anybody. So if you send me a private message on messenger then I get them, and after there’s five or six of them in there I usually will start answering them. I usually at least, try to check it at least once a week. But like I said, my primary duties in this life is making my wife happy and my daughter, you know and spending time with my daughter so everything else is second.

Absolutely! And I’m one hundred percent behind that. Your family is number one priority and always should be. Anyway Gary, thank you very much for your time. I’ve enjoyed talking with you immensely.

Alright. No problem. Have a good one.

Marianne: Thanks so much for your time.

No problem. You have a wonderful night and God bless you and your family.

Patrick Hughes

Patrick: Well we’ve got…. We’ve got many theories. I’m not…. There’s two basically outcomes for what it is. It’s something built on this earth, by somebody on this earth. Or, it’s something from outer space. Just because what I know and what I dealt with in my military career and some of my civilian jobs that I’ve had after that. I tend to believe it’s something from this earth.

Oh really? Interesting.

Which some people actually argue with me about. But, at the same time, I am one hundred percent open to it being not from here. And it would be equally satisfying for that to be the outcome. It’s just with my experiences you know? I know there’s stuff not everybody knows about exists, so I understand the possibility that they could have something like this that doesn’t…. That doesn’t exist, ‘cause, they don’t want to tell us about it.

Well of course. Like the stealth fighter is a perfect example of that, isn’t it?

Yes. Exactly.

How long did they have the stealth before it went public?

Exactly. And that’s simply why I tend to lean that way. But I’m equally open to it being you know? Et from planet you know what?

Right. And of course it could always be back-engineered technology as well. Because, I understood it was doing like…. When it descended into the ocean and at one part it was doing 24,000 miles per hour, but with no sonic booms.

Yeah. That was based on…. That calculation so to speak, came from Kevin Day and was based on what they saw on the Princeton’s radar. How fast it moved – fell. That’s a fairly confidently accurate number but it could be different. Like it went from point A to point B in, (snaps fingers), that quick!

Yeah, very quickly.

It also went from where it was being chased by Commander Fravors airplane, back to Commander Fravors CAPP point, a good distance away, almost instantaneously.

What’s a CAPP point for those of us who aren’t military?

It’s basically a point in the sky that they use as a rendezvous point. It’s called a Combat Air Patrol Point, it’s basically a point in space where…. That’s where they start.

Right. Got you.

So if they go do something, they go back to that point before they do something else. It’s not a classified latitude and longitude. It’s just not publicized.

Of course.

Nobody would have known where their CAPP point was. So how does an object get from where they were with Commander Fravor and his aircraft, back to that point. That quickly and without having anyway to know where that point was?

Right. Good point.

So there’s a lot of unknowns to the whole story, that we still don’t know….

Hmmm hmmm. And I guess that brings in the men coming to collect the stuff and how would they have known to begin with?

I mean, the only reason I can think they may have had a heads-up, is the fact that Princeton had been dealing with the object for almost three or four days at that point

OK, that’s true.

And we were, give or take ninety miles, from San Diego so somebody could easily have been told early that morning and make it out to the ship by the time, you know, lunchtime hit. Or, somebody else knew what was going on and they planned to come out at that point. You know there’s multiple outcomes for that.

Yeah, yeah, obviously. Yeah.

But, in the past couple of days I’ve actually come to the realization of something. When we were out in 2004, the Nimitz strike group was basically the top of the line, when it came to the Navy at that point. We had some of the newest airplanes. The newest software. Newer capabilities and it was basically the first time all of that stuff had been deployed together. And we were testing a lot of it and working a lot of it. So, at that point, we were the best the Navy had to offer.

Two-thousand-sixteen comes along, and the Gimble incident, over off of Florida, that carrier strike group was the top of the line. And it’s a…. There was no point between two-thousand-four and twenty-fifteen where there wasn’t such a drastic change in capabilities of the battle group. So it’s almost like they tested us in two-thousand-three when we got really good at stuff. Or sorry, two-thousand and four. Got really good at stuff. You know? They know our capabilities. And all of a sudden we push out in two-thousand-fifteen a bunch of new stuff and here come objects again.

Oh that’s a very valid observation actually.

It’s…. Anyway I could just be reaching with that observation. But….

It’s as valid as anything, isn’t it?

Yep. But it’s just an interesting…. It’s a very interesting way to look at it. If it’s us, that’s somebody knowing that that battle group was now the top of the line, and says hey let’s go test against them again. If it’s not our technology and it’s something off this planet, it then becomes that much…. It almost becomes a little worrying. What? How do they know that’s the best we have to offer at that time? And why are they only worried about the best we have to offer? Why are they just not bothering everybody at the same time?

That’s a very…. A very interesting observation. So, what is your feeling about your military coming out in the past couple of weeks saying, yes these videos are real. Yes UFOs exist.

I mean, to a point the videos, however they got released. Got released. There’s too much evidence to support those videos that they are, in fact, real. That you can’t deny it. And when you add in all the other stuff that’s come out in regards to it. It’s very, very hard to hide the fact that it’s not an airplane. It’s not something we know. And, they’re not saying it’s a UFO. They’re saying its an unidentified aerial phenomenon.

Yes. That’s what they call them these days, yes.

They’re saying it’s something. We’re telling you it’s something! We agree it’s something. But that’s as far as we’re going to go. It’s good that they’re admitting it.

Albeit a bit late eh….

Well yeah! And who knows? They could have a reason for doing it. They could not have a reason for doing it. You never know with the Government.

That’s true.

But one of the reasons it’s encouraging that they’re released it, is back in two-thousand and four, one of Kevin Day’s major concerns was the safety of the air crew. The pilots flying in the airplanes with something like that flying around.

Yeah, that’s a …. That’s a valid concern.

And that was his…. That was actually his reasoning for getting Commander Fravor to break off their mission to go look at that object, was the fact that it was a safety flight issue. By the Navy admitting that that stuff was out there, it’s actually as sign that they’re, in my opinion, admitting it to…. Admitting to it more for the protection of it’s pilots. Hey this stuff is out there and where not just ignoring it.

Hmm. What about the fact that they’re actually allowing personal to report sightings now? Rather than discouraging it? Is that just window dressing as well?

Officially you’ve always been able to report something. But just as I explained with the jokes about this incident in two-thousand-four, you know? Nobody’s going to take you seriously and when you’re on an aircraft carrier in the middle of say, the Pacific Ocean where there’s no land for hundreds of miles your…. The sky gets so clear you can see everything. So it’s not unheard of for people to see things. I can’t tell you what it is. I can tell you it’s probably some satellite just ‘cause, you can kind of tell the pattern. But people see things that you don’t normally see, so the possibilities that people are seeing things…. How much have people seen, but they never reported it, because, you don’t want to get laughed at by everybody you work with?

Right. And you also don’t want to risk any chances of, of losing promotion and….

Exactly!  Oh that’s the guy who saw a UFO forget about him. But now you have the Navy admitting that things exist, whatever you think it is. You have highly experienced and highly senior military officers going public with it. Mainly Commander Fravor. You have Senators and people who are starting to get interested in it. You have, you know, a handful of us who’ve come public about this incident and none of us have been laughed at. Nobody’s been arrested or thrown in a padded room. Sooner or later people are going to start understanding that nobody’s going to come after you if you say anything. Nobody’s going to laugh at you, you know, if you see something. And maybe things will start coming out of this and we’ll see more patterns of more experiences. So I think it’s a positive thing that they did it.

Well yes. It’s about time. I actually did an interview with a chap. His episode was the first of this seasons. He was based in the UK with the Air Force during the Rendlesham forest affair. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that? You possibly haven’t.

I’ve probably heard it, but I was not…. I was never into, super into like UFOs before this, so this is a story I’ve heard briefly, but I’m not really familiar.

Well it’s a really world famous episode, like yours is now. But it was based between two air force bases in England. One was call Woodbridge and the other Bentwaters. And he was nineteen years old at the time and in the security police, ah MP’s whatever they call them. That was his job and he had this experience then and he had never spoken of it publically until he spoke to me about it.

It affected his whole life. He’s in his fifties now and he’s struggling with health issues directly related to his UFO experience. He’s carried this his entire life and he still has the effects of it affecting him now. I just felt so bad for him because there was no counselling given to the men who…. And this was a UFO that actually landed on the ground. It was solely witnessed on the ground by military personal. And these guys were given no counselling, they were given no support. They were just told basically shut your mouths, you’re not to discuss this.

Yes. That’s how it works, unfortunately.

Yep. And so he’s got PTSD from it and he has multiple health issues directly attributable to the radiation from the ship. Having said that, has this affected your life in any way?

Me personally? No. I know it’s affected Kevin Day. He’s spoken quite publicly about some of the stuff it’s affected with him. I know Gary Voorhis …. ‘Cause the guys on the Princeton aside from tracking it on the radar, they actually saw the object with their own eyes. It has a giant…. They call them big eyes. And they’re a really big set of binoculars and quite a few of them were able to go out, you know? If you had access to those binoculars, to see ‘em. Kevin Day saw em. Gary Voorhis saw them. Jason Turner saw everything through the video. So I…. It never affected me, but I believe…. Like Kevin Day. I believe him wholeheartedly when he said it’s affected him. But I now stuff that’s affected me, that hasn’t affected other people who were there, so….

Yeah exactly. It’s individual to the person. I understand that. But for those like Kevin who had that experience, it would alter your paradigms on how you perceive reality to be.  Well, I’m glad that you’ve had no effects from it, because, I guess you were a step removed from the actual event. So that was probably a bit of a blessing in some respects. But enough for you to see the effects of this on others. That’s really interesting. Is there anything that you personally would take away from this experience that’s given you pause for thought, or anything like that?

 I mean, I got back into this whole subject actually by accident. I ran across Dave Beaty’s video on YouTube and I just sent him an email saying there’s parts of the story that you don’t know. Then Dave convinced me to interview and I ended up going to UFO Mega-con, in Laughlin, Nevada. Got in touch with Gary and Kevin and Jason and a few other people, and filled in so many blanks to the story that I knew. And it’s… I guess it’s, it really has changed my perception a little. Just because of I’ve met a whole bunch of new people

I’d say seventy-five percent of them have been genuine in their beliefs and what they’ve told me. And I have no reason to doubt them. I’ve talked to people who I think are absolutely bonkers. But it’s just a whole…. It’s a whole world of stuff I didn’t think about. A whole world of possibilities with this I hadn’t thought about you know. If it’s our stuff, then there’s a whole bunch of new physics that the world doesn’t know about and ….

And then, where did they get these physics from?

Exactly. There’s so much of our culture that is based off of what we know now, that could drastically change, if this is in fact this is actually ours. And if it’s not ours and it’s something from outer space. It’s equally going to change so much of what we know.

Right. Absolutely.

I think that’s one of the things that scares a lot of people. It’s not necessarily that there’s aliens out there. It’s what’s going to change because we know now for a fact? That there are Aliens out there. You know, there’s some people who will be perfectly acceptable to it. There’s going to be some crazy wackos who aliens are going to burn down our planet, we can’t let them here…. There’s going to be some people who just don’t care. You know? You’re going to get a whole wide range of reactions to it. And personally if they told me tomorrow that Aliens were real, I’m not sure how I’m going to react. I dunno? Have you ever see the movie ‘Contact’?

With Jodie Foster?

Yep. One of the lines in the movie and I know it comes from the guy who wrote it but, “If we’re alone in the galaxy, it’s an awful waste of space.” I firmly believe that somewhere out there, there’s something else. I don’t know what it is, or if it’s somebody, or if it’s intelligent…. There’s other stuff out there that we just don’t know about yet. But even then, I don’t know how I would react to it. If they told me tomorrow that ET’s landing on the airplane, we’re going to say hi to them….

Well, I think probably you’d be a bit more prepared than the average person. Considering what you’ve been though. So you’ve probably got a bit of head start there anyway. Do you know there was a poll done recently and over sixty-seven, sixty-eight percent of Americans believe in the existence of extraterrestrial beings and life off of this planet.

I did not know that. That’s actually much higher than I expected.

It used to be thirty percent, maybe ten years ago. So yeah, it’s quite a large percentage of people who actually believe…. And what you said before was right, and I actually said to my listeners in the beginning of an episode that aired some weeks back. If we are the only intelligent species in these multi-universes, what does that mean for us? And if we are not, what also does that mean for us as humanity? Lots of questions eh. So thank you so very much Patrick for taking the time to share your part of the experience with me and my listeners. That’s really awesome.

No problem.

In these episodes we have covered the USS Navy Tic-Tac, UAP/UFO/AVV – whatever term you wish to use for these sightings, The episode that made headlines around the world. And to this date remains unexplained. Personally for me this raises more questions than anything else and leads me off into the world of government conspiracies and cover-ups, shadow governments etc. An area I have not gone into in this program, but if enough of you are interested, then flick me an email at shadowlands@yahoo.com and I will do an episode for you on this.

I have found Gary and Patrick, both most interesting to listen to. What impressed me about both gentlemen was the fact that they simply don’t care whether people believe them or not. They saw what they saw, or experienced what they experienced, and now that the US Forces have come out and said these objects are real, as Gary said – this makes them the most credible witnesses in the world. Can’t beat that!

I want to end these episodes with this quote from the short documentary The Nimitz Experience by David Beaty, as I feel the words are most appropriate”

“The answers seem to elude everyone like reflections on a wave…. Yet they are out there”

Our musical score today is called Private Reflection by Kevin McLeod Licensed under Creative Commons, for more information check out this episodes page on the podcast website at: www.walkingtheshadowlands.com.

If you have any suggestions for topics you might like me to cover in upcoming episodes, then please don’t hesitate to contact me. Or if any of you have any questions, or any comments that you’d like to make, or experiences that you might like to share with myself, and my audience. Then just email me at shadowlands@yahoo.com

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• Music from https://filmmusic.io “Private Reflection” by Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com) License: CC BY (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)