Episode 90: The Lower Alloway’s Creek Incident

Kia ora, hi everyone. Welcome back. If you’re new to our podcast, then, thank you so much for joining us today.  Let me set a scenario for you all. I want you all to imagine what it must be like to be a young, single mum, in your early twenties. Living in a very isolated place, with your sister living in a house next to yours. Way out in the country, One night you are just sitting, watching television when you get a phone call from your sister. Completely out of the blue. As a result of this phone call, you find yourself witnessing something totally incredible, and scary. Then, as a result of what you witness, your life as you knew it, is shattered completely. And you become fearful, for the safety of your young child who is about three and a half years old, yourself, and your loved ones. The military and government officials that turn up, threaten to remove your child from you if you don’t comply with the ‘official’ explanation they want the public to hear. As if that wasn’t bad enough, as a result of this you have a flood of memories come back to that are incredibly traumatizing, and turn your ideas of reality inside out. What would you do? How would you cope? How would you feel?

Robert Earl White

This is the situation that my guest’s mum, and he found themselves in that night. That night of the twenty-first of April, nineteen-ninety-one, at around ten-eighteen pm. When a UFO crash-landed in the swampy marshes, immediately behind their two homes, in South Jersey in the United States. This is both my guest’s recollections and what his mum, and aunt shared with him in the years following this incident. As always the question is, will you walk with me as we journey into this part of the shadowlands and see what awaits us there? Then let’s begin.

When a triangular UFO crashed in the marsh behind Robert’s family home in southern New Jersey in 1991, it forever changed his view of reality. Now Robert is a disclosure advocate helping others who have had an experience like his family’s. My guest Robert Earl White. As mentioned previously was between three and a half and four years old when he had this life-altering experience, along with his mum, aunt, and some of his mum’s friends that were over at her house that night – all watching some sports game on TV.

Robert Earl White

Marianne: Really awesome to have you on my podcast. And thank you very much for agreeing to speak to me. For listeners, I met Robert on Tock. And well, I saw a couple of TikTok he had posted about his mother’s experiences. And I really felt like I wanted to talk to Robert and get to know a bit more about these experiences in depth. And how they’ve affected him and his family’s lives? Because, there’s no doubt they have.

Robert: Absolutely. And basically, it all started for us April twenty-first, nineteen-ninety-one. So going back about thirty years ago, we lived in South Jersey, here in the United States, in a small country town, a lot of farmland. We lived in an old farmhouse, single mother, twenty-two years old. We had my grandfather. She took care of, that lived there. He was elderly. And then directly next door, we had my aunt’s house and my little cousin about the same age.

She was thirty-eight years old and also a single mother. And we lived out in the middle of nowhere. We had a creek, a low waterway with a little bridge, one car at a time that could cross over it. And that waterway connected to a local nuclear plant. We lived very close to a nuclear plant. And throughout my research, throughout the years, there’s been a lot of stuff that has happened around this nuclear facility, that we just so happen to grow up next to.

Long story short, April, twenty-first, right around ten-eighteen pm at night. It was rainy. The cloud coverage was about eleven hundred foot. So it was very low. And my aunt who lived next door, she woke up to use the bathroom and she looked out her bedroom window. And she saw an elongated, triangular object. Which kind of looked like a helicopter, but it was completely silent. Hovering above the tree line, with three blue lights coming from the three corners, of what you would imagine an elongated triangle looking like.

But from the center of it, there was a bright white light. So she’s watching it for a little bit. And this is nineteen-ninety-one before technology. I know some of the younger people might not be able to imagine this, but you know, so she goes back into her bedroom. Picks up the phone, calls my mother. My mother was next door watching a baseball game with two of her girlfriends. I was upstairs. I was just about four years old at the time. And my elderly grandfather was sleeping in the other bedroom. My bedroom window – my bed was right near the back window. And the back of our house was the kitchen area.

My mother hears the phone ringing. She runs to the back, but she didn’t run. She went to go answer the phone. Well, what would it be? So she answers the phone and it’s my aunt. And she says, Beth Ann, my mom’s name was Beth Ann. And Beth Ann! Look! There’s  something out behind the tree line just hovering there.

My mom looks and she sees the same thing, completely silent. Three blue lights had a slightly different perspective. You know, our house is like this, and my aunt’s house is like that. They were right next to each other. Not many other houses and they’re watching it. My mom’s two girlfriends come running over. They rush over to see what all the commotion was. They’re watching it as well. I hear the commotion. I’m peeking out, but, I normally leave myself out of the story. Because for the most part, I’m going over the adults in the situation, whereas I was so young, it was traumatizing.

I can imagine, how old were you?

I was three and a half,

Three and a half, right.

Almost four years old. Right at  that age where you just start to understand things, and then not to spoil the story. So as they’re all on the phone with each other, we hear the commotion, and they’re looking. All of a sudden, red and orange sparks started shooting out of this thing, followed by a bright flash. And I don’t say this in the story, but when I do interviews, I explain it.

The white flash was something coming down and hitting whatever this craft was. And when this happened, there was an explosion, but not just any explosion. And there’s a lot of weird stuff about this case. When this thing exploded, the that middle part, that white light they saw in the middle, the whole entire craft basically sucked itself into itself. It like imploded, imploded on itself and that access on the outside of it, like a normal explosion, with you know, bright flash, and the access pieces flew all over the place. But the main core of it, it kind of sucked itself into itself and it shot directly towards the ground, in an explosion in a beam ball of light. Very hard to explain. And after that happened, obviously, my mother, my aunt, everyone was really shook enough, you know., Whether or not that this was necessarily an alien, a UFO, first thoughts that went through their mind was someone just died, you know, some sort of craft.

And the way it exploded and it kind of came down, it really scared them because it seemed like it was coming towards the house. Right. And yes. And it was very traumatic. So soon as that happened, without hesitation, my mother hung up the phone. She called nine-one-one. And what happened after that became known as the Lower Alleyways Creek incident. The small town in New Jersey is Lower All0way’s Creek. And yeah. And then a bunch of wacky stuff happened after my mom made that nine-one-one call.

Can I go back in a minute? I didn’t want to interrupt you while you’re in the flow, but what? Did something? I’m not sure that I understood correctly. Did something actually hit the craft to cause it to explode?  A beam of light hit the craft and that caused the explosion?

That’s what I believe happened. I don’t know if it was a beam of light hitting it, or some sort of UFO. I’m sure most people have seen these balls of lights that are flying around. Imagine something like that? Or a beam hitting it. But it was some external something

Something external.

Quite like some sort of external light that hit this thing.  That made the sparks kind of start shooting out of it. And then the engine, which is obviously it was a highly advanced compulsion system, of some sort. For it to explode, and like suck everything into it. And then boom straight to the ground really quick.

Wow. Yeah, OK. This one I thought you said I just wanted to clarify because. Yeah, I wasn’t sure if I heard correctly. So, I can just imagine the emotions that your mom and your aunt must have been going through. Single parents with little kids to petite young woman because they weren’t very old . In their twenties is not old. They must have been completely traumatized and terrified or one that they was somebody had died. And what was it? So to get back to you story, your mom phoned the police?

And after my mother called the police, that’s when things really amplified. And it just it opened up a can of worms for my mother, you know, for personal experiences. It just it changed everything, but it was covered up extremely well. 

OK, so can we kind of go through, like, a chronological I mean, a. What happened after that, because I actually –  and so, you know, I’ve been an experience in my entire life.  I think I might have told you that when we were corresponding? So, I have a vested interest in stories like this and I actually haven’t heard of your mother’s one, of this incident before. So, after your mom phoned the police, did the police come in immediately?

Immediately! Ten minutes afterwards, the police got there. They get a very brief initial statement? What did you see? Describe what you saw. Where did it go down? And then, their main concern was obviously getting to the area. Getting more info to know where this was. They were maybe there five, ten minutes, at most. When a call like that gets reported, they’re trying to get on it fast [clicks fingers]. Also, after my mother, he went next door where he talked to my aunt, who was in the house and called my mother initially. So then, I’m sure he went probably towards the scene. This is where the story gets really crazy. Keep in mind, throughout the night when all this happened, it was ten-eighteen p.m. And by the time the police got there, it was getting later. It was raining, it was dark. They were traumatized from seeing something that big explode, that low behind their house. And behind that area there is the creek. And there’s a lot of foxtail, a lot of mud, marshland. Really marshy. And there’s a very thin tree line. And the tree line is what separates our houses from where the bridge in the story is. And the marshland and all of that. very thin tree line. And twenty five minutes, my family, they didn’t leave the house. They were there the entire night.

Twenty five minutes afterwards. Two black Lincoln town cars show up to the house. And out of the one car, a gentleman dressed in Air Force attire and out of  the other car, two gentlemen wearing black suits, black hats, no sunglasses. This was long before the movie Men-in-Black. A lot of people have joked oh Men-in-Black, the movie. This happened in nineteen-ninety-one Will Smith was still a baby.

I had my experience back in the sixties with the Men-in-Black said, yeah. I’m with you on that.

Oh, wow! Going back that far? So you’ve seen them as well in person?

Yes. Only a few feet away.

Well then let me tell you this story and it will make sense to you, and hopefully the people listening. So we see them. Now my mom still, up to this point anything about aliens, or anything like that. We were country folk, very religious area. It just wasn’t that kind of area of people. If, we were backwoods, farming folk, it just that was how – We couldn’t even comprehend something like that! So my mom and everyone, you know, they thought this was just military. They thought they were – they saw the Air Force uniform and they’re like, well, it was probably something they were flying, and it crashed! And they want to know what happened? So, a lot of people were like, oh, your mom wasn’t afraid? No, I just saw something crash behind my house. I call nine-one-one. I expect the military to come here and ask questions. It wasn’t strange. And just because guys back then, how was she supposed to know? Guys wearing black suits and hats with a guy from the Air Force? Maybe they’re second to that. There was no putting it. She’s twenty two years old. Like, what can you do?

So she invites them in. They come inside, go into the living room. My mom’s two friends are still there at the time. They have them sit down on our couch. My mom sits down. Her two friends sit down.  And the men in black, they had a pencil, and a notepad. And they look at the three girls sitting on the couch. And they ask them to draw three different kinds of extra-terrestrials, like just really random and oddly. And you know how they can kind of act like nonchalant about things? That’s, that’s what they were doing.  Like almost making it out to be a joke.

And my mother’s two friends started laughing. They started cracking up. They’re like, you got to be kidding me? And, you know, they basically asked them to leave, and they thought like –  it wasn’t what they were expecting. They, it’s almost like they already knew, for that to be the first thing they bring up. My mom and those two girls thought they were going to come in there. All right. Can you explain to me what you saw? No, that wasn’t it. Who, who, would start an investigation by can you draw three different kinds of extra-terrestrials? Long story short, my mom’s two friends were laughing and it was getting later by that point. You know,  they showed up twenty-five minutes after ten-eighteen. So it was almost eleven o’clock by this point. And they were tired. They were out late the night before, this is actually reported. They say my mom was up to like four-thirty at a party. And they lied in the articles. They said she was married, she was just hanging out with a couple guys. You know, we were country folk wild. My mom was a fun, wild, free spirit! She was young! Single mom, working all the time. She had fun when she wasn’t working and killing herself.

But long story short, they – My mom basically started to draw three different kinds of extra-terrestrials. And at this point the other two girls, they went ahead and left.  And still at this point, they didn’t think anything suspicious of it. They left. And my mom went ahead, and she drew three different kinds of extra-terrestrials.  One that looked like your real basic, grey extra-terrestrial. This was with a pencil and a notepad. And my mom had artistic abilities. But believe me, after the whole incident, it was just chicken scratch. It was like you would have thought a three year old drew it. You would have thought I drew it,  but it wasn’t the point.

She drew three different beings. One was your typical grey extra-terrestrial. The other one, was one she called the Blues. It’s the grey extra-terrestrial, and the other one was Nordic. She called Nordic very, very basic beings. After doing that, the gentleman that was in the Air Force and believe this or not, the military uses regression therapy. They use it for soldiers that go through post-traumatic stress disorder to gain intel from a combat situation, in order to get every single detail. The gentleman that was with the Air Force, he was trained in hypnotism. And he hypnotized, or did a regression therapy, I should say appropriately. I don’t I don’t want people to think he was going like that. It wasn’t that kind of therapy. And they did a regression, a very brief one, very brief, no longer than maybe ten minutes. And the stuff my mom revealed. Meanwhile, the men in black were standing in the corner and listening to everything my mom was saying, unfortunately.

And to just kind of go past that. Basically, at that point in moment, was the moment my mother realized that these beings have been dealing with her since she was a baby. Up until the present day. Other than that, when my mom was a child, she would wake up with strange scars. My grandmother would tell her, you just scratched yourself, strange dreams, weird feminine problems. You know, she got her menstrual cycle extremely young. And just weird things like that. And she had a lot of problems, but always just dismissed it all strange. And where we lived, it was normal.

But at that moment when the gentleman from the Air Force did this brief regression therapy and my mom put out that information, it led to the next part of the conversation. So on top of seeing a craft very low and explode, regardless of who’s in it, who owns it or anything, it’s absolutely terrifying. Just looking at this logically.  Then, to have fancy official men, you know, we weren’t custom to men in suits come into our house now. And if they did, we normally hid from them because we thought they were Jehovah’s Witnesses. So we, I’m not joking. We had a whole routine because we would have them come out here and we would turn off the lights and hide underneath the couch. I’m not even I’m not joking. But so we weren’t we weren’t accustomed to that kind of stuff whatsoever. And we were skittish of everything. And long story short, they after the regression and my mother going through all this. And understanding this phenomena, the men-in-black said, do you have any questions?

And I think out of the interactions between the men-in-black, this is huge. Because, from everything I’ve heard of the men-in-black, you normally don’t really get to ask questions. And any questions that you do ask, they are so direct. So direct. And one other thing to since you’ve seen them all pull this up when they were holding the pencil before giving it to my mom and their two girlfriends, they were looking at it like they’ve never seen one before. Like I understand. I know military mind tactics and how to get into people.  But, the way they were looking at this pencil, it was like these draconian cyborgs. We’re so proud that they knew how to hold this pencil, you know, like they like they couldn’t comprehend how you would use it. It was it was weird behaviour like that other than that, completely human looking, completely human. A lot of people, you know, they looked human, you know, and but they just did weird,

Weird things

Weird things.

Hmm and that’s a very common, ah, a very common thing that those that have witnessed men-in-black have said. They behaved in a strange manner. Or, if they looked semi-normal, the behaviour was quite abnormal.

Almost like they used that behaviour to hope to make you question everything you’re seeing.  Because why would they be doing that behaviour? It’s almost like they’re really good at telepathy and they’re powerful. And they have the power to – Well, I’ll get into that. So they after keep in mind, what my mom revealed was some big things. I don’t really share a lot of that to publicly, but unfortunately, this gave them information they were looking for. And a little pre-track, because, during this time of the men-in-black, why they were doing all this, there was a lot of other stuff going on as well at the scene, firefighters, which we’ll get into that.

But, as they were conducting this, you know, and they were about to allow my mother to ask three questions, you know, everything was – They had to know. they got there twenty-five minutes. And the gentleman from the Air Force base, I think, came from an Air Force base that was like an hour and thirty minutes away, you know. So my Aunt saw it, that craft was already there. Near a nuclear plant. A no fly zone. I believe the military base already had this thing on radar, and they were already in pursuit. I think, that’s the only way logically I can explain the men in black getting to our house out in the middle of nowhere.

Twenty five minutes. It took us longer than that to get to our family’s house. It’s mind blowing, but they had to know. So my mom asked them three simple questions. And keep in mind, she just went through this phenomenon, what was going on. And the first question my mom asked the men in black is, are these things dangerous? Keep in mind. Twenty-two-year-old single mom, you know, every question she asked is going to be about protecting her kid. Especially after what she revealed in the regression therapy, which I don’t get into too much to extremes. But so the men in black replied, very blunt. If they were dangerous, do you think we would still be here? Done. That was it. That was the answer, it wasn’t it wasn’t like admitting to anything. Just very –  if they have to answer you, you know, that’s it’s you almost got to be careful with the questions. But, that wasn’t her intent. She was she didn’t she wasn’t trying to hound them. She was even thinking that. The second question my mom asked was, why don’t people know about these things? Much better questions, much better question. And they said, we’re doing everything we can by preconditioning within the next ten years, you will see signs of extra-terrestrials in every movie, books, music, media, all of the above. And this is nineteen-ninety-one.

Yeah. Can I interject here further to that? Uh, in the eighties, in the late eighties, I was told by my Star People that the government had been given notice that they had to let people know of extra-terrestrial presence or the choice would be taken out of their hands. And that was when the preconditioning started.

And that’s it! Preconditioning, that’s exactly what it is. And see, I was just about four years old. So when I was watching my cartoons, although I knew better to keep my mouth shut about these things. And I did, I went on to do really good things. I kept my mouth shut about it and I would watch this. And they were right. I would see it. And every other little boy was watching these cartoons, just la, la, la, la, la, la. And I was really –  and now I’m starting to show them the people again. Because I remember them when I saw them. But long story short, that’s what they said. And it was also funny because nineteen-ninety-one, ten years growing up, my mom, all of us, we always thought this closure was going to be two-thousand and one we got we didn’t get that honestly. We got the complete opposite of that in two-thousand one.

We all know what happened. Big distraction happened in New York City and war started. It’s almost like the disclosure, according to them, was supposed to happen in two-thousand-one. It seems like at any time this starts to get close, there’s another big distraction to throw everyone off, you could say. So the third question after they answered, which once again, it was really brief, really brief.

The third question my mom asked after realizing these beings are taking her. And she’s not in this house, you know, and she realized this in the regression. And she asked the men in black, when these beings are taking me what would happen if something happened to my elderly grandfather, or my baby boy? And now see, the men-in-black don’t expect questions like that. And when you when you ask the right question, sometimes they got to spill a little bit. And that was a very specific, specific question. And this is what the men-in-black said. They use small greys that stay behind. And if anything was to happen to your baby or your grandfather, they would have you back. And they took their hand and they snap their fingers. And when they snapped all, they were so proud they knew how to do that human being, snap that arrogance, that arrogance. You know what I’m talking about.

And that was it. And they said any more questions? My mom said, no, that’s it. And then they said, OK, tomorrow many different media outlets are going to come here, investigators, the news newspapers, asking you what you saw? And, what happened? And you will say it was a helicopter, or we will take your son away. So think about everything my mom revealed and the regression, think about my mother’s three questions, all involving protecting me.  What did they use against my mother?

Of course, of course. That’s what they did with my mum as well.

That’s what they do. They’re honestly harmless, but they’re great at telepathy. And they know the very thing you’re afraid to lose. And the thing they didn’t plan on was someday, that four-year-old little boy, is going to grow up and not have anything left to lose. And that is dangerous to them.  

And now the thing I’ve loved the most, unfortunately, isn’t here anymore. So, they don’t really have much on me. But long story short, that’s what they said. My mom said, I understand. And my mom played to the script. She played to the script. And after that, we never saw them, or heard of them. Nothing ever again. Nothing ever again. My mom did exactly as she was told, but things went a little deeper the next day. But we’ll get into that, and real quick. So what was going on at the crash site?

Why the men in black were at our house. We weren’t leaving. Turns out my cousin, which was the fire chief at the time, and a lot of people after –  kind of speed this up, I kind of got to go forward and go backwards to really explain this, real time to you. So last June, I found articles after thirty years of not having evidence, not having proof that this ever happened. I found articles and after I found the articles, I made a documentary. After I put the first part out going over the articles, I had a flood of witnesses come in.

And this is where it gets really deep. And this is how I started to uncover what was actually going on at the scene, and coming from reputable adults. These were adults. These were police officers. This is all well documented. A lot of people were involved, no doubt about it. They had two other people call the police station. They were about 20 miles away, and they saw it, where it was in our backyard. They were so far away. They just they thought it was a helicopter flying extremely low because it was near the nuclear plant. Everyone was confused.

So the fire trucks, as they were approaching the scene – which the fire trucks arrived about forty to forty-five minutes after the initial phone call to 911 one Sunday night. It was late raining, country took them a while. So as they are approaching, they’re in the fire truck and they’re very high up. And they can see into the marsh, and the fox trails in the mud. And they saw gouges and it was all ripped up and messed up. And as they got a little closer up ahead, they saw large black tarps laying out on the marsh, big black tarps. And there was a gentleman from the Coast Guard armed, and he flagged them down. And they were like hey, and he said the situation is under control. And he ordered them to go back around. After they turned back around. And also, keep in mind, there were no burn marks or fire marks in the crash area. That’s mind blowing. I can imagine that. But after they got back to the firehouse, there was a few people hanging out. It was the local hangout because there was nothing else. The fire, it was, and a couple of girls and two separate trips. They went. And they went as far as they could, but at that time they had the roadblock. That bridge and that road has been closed till this day. It closed down the night of the accident and it’s still closed. That’s why the roads all abandoned and the bridge is all painted up and they got barriers.

What do you think it’s closed? Because there may be nuclear fallout, or radiation, something?

There’s a lot of speculation around it. The official thing they were saying was the structure became not stable. But at the same time, during that time, they have very large trucks carrying material, big trucks. The one woman, as she was approaching, she saw a tree cutting service that came there to remove trees. Then the second woman, when –  by the time she got there after the first one, she was nosing around, seeing what was going on, went back to the firehouse. The second one went. And at that point she saw a flatbed truck with black tarps, with objects loaded on the back of them. I guess this is what they use, flatbed trucks. You would think it would be more like something hidden, but it’s really not. It was pretty primitive. And the Coast Guard was involved because the Coast Guard is involved with guarding the nuclear plant. So that’s how they were one of the first ones. And remember that, creek goes directly to the nuclear plant.

Now, we all know these beings are sci –. A lot of them are scientists and they’re really curious about radiation and nuclear energy or natural energy, any sort of energy. They don’t care. They love to study energy. And this has been a hot spot for a long time. Not to mention in my research, I found another article going five years. And the fire chief and Dover Air Force Base and the Coast Guard, there was objects,  blue flying object, not crash, but something flying around that they picked up on the radar. And I have those articles of the same people talking to each other. So by the time the thing actually went down, they were really, really on it, and fast.

And I’ve had a lot of people come forward, a lot of other witnesses that were in an area or worked on the EMS squad. I just had a few weeks ago so messaged me, I worked on the EMS squad with the ambulance and all that. They didn’t work that night, but they worked the following night. And the search went on for like two days. So – and they had that whole area cleaned up in the first two hours. And my mom was on the phone with search and rescue helicopters they had four search and rescue helicopters. One with thermal cameras on it. Like that’s a lot of money back in nineteen-ninety-one.  And by the time they got out, which was around one, two o’clock, the search and rescue helicopters got there. They already had the site cleared out. They cleared it out in two hours! Cleared it out in two hours. And I know they didn’t get every piece. It was raining. The trajectory. There was pieces shooting three hundred yards, very far. And there was stuff that went all over. And I know I’m going to get a piece of it here soon.

I was just going to say.

I’m just trying to I’m trying to find a team because, yeah, I could go out there and find a piece of it, but who’s gonna believe me? I need I need to find a little piece, for my own sanity. And then I need to get a hold of professional crew, you know, for television, someone big. And I have some connections and things like that. And I want to get a professional team with professional cameras and do this right, find a piece of it. And that’s that.

Have you ever heard of the documentary, ‘The Phenomenon’?

Yes. Steven Greer.

Ah no, David – ah,  James Fox. I just interviewed him a while ago. He might be a man, who might be interested in helping you?

That would be very interesting. I’ve been –  there’s a few people I’ve been working with and the mutual UFO network, they covered my case. They were highly involved. And they’ve been helping. me as much as they can, but I’m having a lot of hard time finding information about my family’s case. And I, I see smirking because you probably know all this. And trust me, I’m working with some of the big, the big, the big players.

And it is what it is. For example, the following day, a lot of investigators came. My mom was up till three o’clock on the phone. The following day, MUFON came. My mom, my family called. No one. No one. but nine-one-one. The next day, newspapers come. MUFON comes. They’re taking pictures of our back yard backyard, saying they’re finding stuff. I cannot find these pictures. And I’m working with the East Coast director of MUFON. You know, like it was such an old time – I don’t know if the files got misplaced, where they could be?

Or, was it MUFON, actually?

Yeah, I – who knows, but they do have the articles. And, well, that’s the weird thing about the pictures, because in my MUFON articles they don’t really talk about taking pictures in the area. But, my aunt said there is people in the backyard taking pictures, and they said they were MUFON. But in the MUFON articles, they don’t mention about taking any pictures. And you want to hear something stranger? In the MUFON articles, the reporter that did it, the one. He wanted  do a site investigation two days afterwards, twelve o’clock at night, there were no street lights there. How would he want to have seen anything in the brush? You know that you know what brush is. There’s no way! Who would investigates a site for tire marks, tree cuts, gouges in marshland in a place with no street lights, twelve o’clock at night?

Hmm, very suspect eh. Very suspect.

But, in the articles, they were –  they knew something happened and they left little clues in there. But, you can tell they were really trying to protect my family. They even made a couple statements. They’re remain anonymous. They don’t want publicity. My family didn’t want this unsolved mysteries or the show sightings. They came out, they did a hypnosis session on my mom, a regression therapy, where they were going to block out her face. I haven’t been able to find it. And I don’t think it ever aired. I don’t think it aired.

It was probably stopped.

But they did come there, it was the show ‘Sightings’, or ‘Unsolved Mystery’. We’re not sure which one, but it never aired. The Philadelphia news came. Philadelphia three news. They came. They did two separate things. The first one, they busted in my aunt’s job. She was a realtor at century twenty-one. Big realtor company. They busted in there. And she’s very religious. They’re super, super Christian. Lovely woman. Awesome. Very soft spoken, quiet, very to herself. They barged in there. So, they did a second part where they were all at our house. Grand pop’s house, we all called it, where my mom and I, we, all lived. And they did a second interview there. And then the interview for the news. My mom said exactly what the men-in-black and I have this documented, because it was documented in the news. I have the writings.

And she said, I’m willing to put my life on it. It was a helicopter. You know, why? Why would my mom be willing to put her life on? It’s because of the threat that came the prior night. And she did that. But, MUFON was asking her about her dreams. Keep in mind, she had a brief regression therapy. So, as coy as possible, she told them about the dream she was having before the night of the crash – Going out to a half wooded area. Seeing four mongooses walking erect in unison. Some of the greys are hive minded. Some of them, the cloned ones.  Zeta reticular, all of those cats, some of them have these hive minds. And they do operate within unison. Not all, have to make that clear. But, they were approaching her. And she saw three to four hamster cages, with red and orange twist ties going around the bars. And she also saw two large snakes. And she felt like she was protecting the snakes from the mongooses. Now, that was the dream.

But, after regression therapy, you get to see what is really going on. And I’m sure when you hear that, you kind of see the picture that’s going on. And especially with red and orange twist ties, you know, DNA strands, red and orange, the T and C Strand, and the hamsters. She was a part of the hybrid program, and she was in contact with a bunch of different beings. And I think, because of her contact with some, it kind of forced others to get involved.

You know, I think it was you had ones trying to protect her. And you had some trying to use her genetics. Her – It was very valuable to them. And unfortunately, many different species. Many different ones, not just the ones that are all roses, and love, and light, and all source energy. There’s ones where we are just genetic material, and that’s how it goes. And I can accept that. But, to be on the bad, the receiving end of that can be traumatizing.

Pretty traumatizing, yeah.

Although my mother says she was never afraid. She says she was never afraid, not even with the ones that were doing things that were questionable. Against maybe, our codes of ethics, in the way we look at the universe. But, she says she was never afraid. Not even with the ones she called the ‘Tall Whites’. There are these tall, grey extra-terrestrials with very light, almost white, but yeah, light grey. They’re very old beings. They are also the ones that fly the elongated, black triangular craft, with this polished system of energy. And they were one of the beings involved. And my mom was also involved with the Blues, with the ‘Arcturians’, coming from the Arcturus star system.

Was she told where they were coming from? Or, was that just innate knowing?

This was – when it all first came to her, like growing up, she had her own names for these things. She always had her own names for these things. And she never really asked. But certainly she kind of did.  Like we always called the Zeta Greys, the Zeta Greys. We always, we always knew. That’s what we call them. We called them Zeta Greys. That’s what we called them, Zeta Greys. Which actually, there’s a couple different species. And they have their own names. And they come from slightly different, there’s Zeta Reticular one, Zeta reticular two. There’s two star systems that – It’s complex not to get off topic. But, and keep in mind, when I was growing up, I’m her child. She really simplified things. And whether they were telling her more? There was a lot my mom didn’t tell me until I got older. And a lot of it, for the most part, they never really went over that.

The thing that really stuck with her the most. And the thing that kind of haunted her, was her encounters with her children. It seems like everything else, like experiments, things they were doing to her, that would come and go. And she can live on with that. But any time she was seeing her children, this is what she would be, like, up in the middle night crying about. It wasn’t what they were doing to her. Or, the experiments. But, it was seeing her children. Knowing that they are her children. Communicating to them telepathically, and not being able to nurture them. Not being able to take care of them.

And that drove her. That was that was the worst part of it. And on top of that, more than the UFO crash, and the alien abductions. And the encounters my mother was having. The response you would get from the public, if you were to talk about this. This is – my aunt, which my aunt, she’s still alive. Unfortunately, my mother passed away last year.

Oh, I’m so sorry.

Two months, before, I found the evidence proving our family story. It’s almost like she orchestrated all of this to happen. Like she there’s a lot of things she didn’t tell me. I know she didn’t tell me. And now, you know, she’s not here. I’m starting to figure everything out. And I just wish it was the other way around. But, that’s the way the universe goes. But, yeah, it found the articles and that’s why I made the documentary. I did the thing to honour her, and help other people. Because there are thousands of people that have had your experience, her experience. So many people are going through this. And I remembered a young age around five or six, seven being at a party with my mom. You know, they’re having a bonfire. Someone talks about a movie with an alien, or something casually. And my mom would bring up the crash story, and talk about her alien abductions. They would all start laughing at her. And I remember her crying and running off.

Oh, your poor Mum.

And that just, that stuck with me. And being young, and I knew she wasn’t lying. And I saw how people were treating her. So I just basically found out, you know, keep my mouth shut about this. And unfortunately, she did. And what she did was drink alcohol. Because, when she would drink alcohol, they couldn’t abduct her and do these experiments. She was putting poison into her bloodstream. Therefore, wasn’t that valuable a hybrid, and she said the abductions would stop. And, you know, and that’s not I’m sure that’s not the only reason. I’m not blaming it all on extra-terrestrials by any means. But, not having people to talk about, you know, about these things. And learn how to empower yourself, which is a shame.  Because, towards the end, when she was starting to get sick and stuff, she got really into Reiki. She started hanging out with spiritualist people. She finally, towards the end of it, you know, things were starting to awaken.

She finally found some peace?

Yeah, and at that point, it was too late though. And, you know, and not having evidence or proof, it just makes it harder to share your story. Where, after I found the articles, I had some very good evidence to present. And by doing this, I was hoping that I could help people in this experience. And the abductions my mom was going through, like I said, what was more scarier than the crash or the aliens, honestly, was the men-in-black threatening my mom to take me away. And people’s judgment. That’s worse than the whole phenomena. Like even worse than the babies.

I remember when we had our man in black experience. We saw a UFO over our home in the middle of the city. The next morning, the man-in-black were at our place. Not hours later, the next morning. And they traumatized my mother. She was the same age as your Mum. A woman in her early twenties. And I remember they were three, three men-in-black in my case. And I’ve talked about it in previous episodes. But, they traumatized her so badly, that she slammed the door on them. And then went and tried to light a cigarette. And her hand was shaking so badly, that she dropped the cigarette lighter. It was just –  And she was by herself, because, her husband was out of town. And so, you know, and she had little kids in the house. So I know how it must have been for your mom, because I remember how it was for my mom.

It really traumatized her. And to me, the man-in-black said to the other, one of them said, well, what about the little girl? Because, I was standing at the door with my mother. She’s too young. She won’t remember. Well, yeah, big mistake on their part! Because, since then I’ve talked about it. Every opportunity I’ve gotten, I’ve spoken about it. And I’ve never been shy about talking about my experiences. And I’ve had people do the same thing to me that your mom went through. But you know what? I don’t care. I know what

I experienced. I know what I went through. And it’s my mission to speak out about it. And this is one of the reasons I started this podcast so that people like your mom, wouldn’t have to feel so alone and isolated. Because, it’s a very dreadful thing to feel like that. Very, very awful. I, I feel so sorry for your mom, and for you. How has this affected you? And I bet your bottom dollar that you’ve had experiences yourself.

Definitely. And I’m absolutely the same way with the men-in-black. I know this is a podcast, but I have a t shirt with the UFO, and the Lower Alloway’s creek. And on the back, it’s a men-in-black. I don’t want to spin around for audio purposes, but there’s a man-in–black. And it says trickers keep secrets. And I’m kind of making fun of them. But, how has this affected me? Like I said, I was three and a half years old at the time. At the time, as I was told by my mother and my grandmother, it really traumatized me. I do have memories of bits and parts of it, and a little bit more. But they –  at the time the movie Aliens was out. I had a lot of the alien toys and they would come with comic books. and they had to take all the comic books away because, see, the reality of, you know, these things being real, versus Hollywood making monsters out of it, you know?

I’m in one ear I’m hearing, hey, these things are real. And then I’m playing with toys, and reading comic books where I’m like –  Well, if those are real, you know, like, are these things going to, you know? And it was cool. It was a balancing act and finding, you know, that, you know, just because you see it on TV doesn’t mean that it’s real.  But, it’s based off of something that is real. Keep an open mind. It’s things are based off of things, that are things indeed. And so I started having that, but I was having really bad nightmares. And it wasn’t about the alien toys. That’s just what my family thought. You know, my family was constantly talking about this. My grand, elderly grandfather would yell and say, stop talking about it. You’re scaring the young’un and you’re scaring the young’un! You’re scaring the young‘un. In that old Southern voice. And because, I guess it was scaring me.

But, I remember having very vivid dreams of strange things around that time.  Just things that every now and then they kind of come back to me. I can’t piece it together. And it was a dream, but it doesn’t – the dreams don’t make sense. I don’t I don’t think they’re relevant to the case. I think it was something else going on after the UFO crash happened. But, as far as abductions, or anything like that. I don’t think I’ve ever had that experience. I don’t think I’ve ever been abducted by aliens. Although, I’m definitely in contact with them, that  – there’s no doubt about that. And I’ve seen them with my own eyes in my living room. I had my own encounter.

Listen to this. Twenty-twelve, twenty-twelve. And here’s the kicker. Last year when I found the articles of my family’s UFO crash, we didn’t know the exact date. That’s why it took thirty years. I didn’t know when it happened? And also I was looking for UFO crash, and it’s labelled as a mysterious helicopter crash. So, how could I ever find the articles? It took me thirty years, but I found them! But, I found them. And so, all this time went by. And just last year, I found out the date. I found out the date, which was April twenty-first, nineteen-ninety-one. Just turns out the day that I saw this energy being, light thing. I don’t know, whatever it was, when I saw this. It was twenty-one years to the exact day. April twenty-first nineteen, I’m sorry, twenty-twelve. The exact same day.

And at that time I didn’t know that that was the day of the crash. And I didn’t know that experience was that day, until last year. Because, once I learned the date I went on my Facebook. And during that time when I saw that being, it kind of gave me a mass download. And I started writing math problems. And all this wacky, wild stuff. And I took a couple goofy pictures. And like, I had like quantum physics of the triangle, and matrixing codes, you know? Just stuff like that. And I was just goofing off. Math is fun. It’s two-thousand-twelve. I was young, dumb. And I went back and I looked at the date and it was April twenty-first. So whatever this encounter is then, and this being –  it, I believe it has something to do with whatever took out that triangular UFO. Almost like it was checking in on me.

Very interesting.  Now, I really felt really strongly that you would have had contact. and I don’t necessarily call them abductions because I’m not an abductee. I’m a contactee.  There’s a difference.

Yeah, exactly.

I’ve never been taken against my will. I’ve always – And my earliest memory with encounters, was when I was three. So I could really relate with what you were going through. But for me, it was the opposite. And it wasn’t scary in the least. However, I – listening to your story. I knew quite clearly that you have had encounters. Probably your entire life, but the rest you may not remember. But at the stage that you visually saw this this being, and I’ll ask you what he looked like in a minute, you were mature enough. At an emotional level where you could deal with that. Whereas before, you weren’t. Because, you had everything else that you had to sort out in your life.

Absolutely, and I agree with that, and that was a big part of it, and throughout my life, they’ve, they’ve, only gave me what I can handle. And believe it or not, for example, when I was after I graduated high school, I went to Bible college. I became a pastor. I was in the church. And I was always meditating, praying, things like this. And always trying to help humanity, although I wasn’t like a super –  and I’m not a religious person by any means anymore.

I’ve studied a lot of different religions. I’ve also lived in the Middle East, where I studied Islam, and other things like that. I’ve studied everything and I’ve travelled where I needed to go, to get stuff done. And it’s – I’ve always had these like you said, there’s a big difference between abductee and contactee. I’m definitely a contactee. But they always gave me things in their own timing, and timings I can handle. And I’m not going to lie after I have that experience with that ball of light, it got really hard. And when you read of stories of people in history, that have had encounters with these beings. And some of their reactions afterwards, it makes sense. And it makes total sense of why a lot of people, it really makes you question anything. And after I saw that ball of light, you know, to have that much information come at once, it really kind of starts to go to your head. It’s really overwhelming. And I guess, I was a really slow learner.

Like, this is always kind of been me and I’m still learning things. I’m like way behind the curve. I think, you know, my mom was the thing being worked on. And I just kind of look at myself, as a science project. Let’s see what happens. And I’m a little behind, behind, the curve on things. But when I saw that ball of light showed me a lot of things. And I called my mom and that’s when my mom really started to try to explain things more about who I am and etc., and all that. And it was a lot to take in. I remember at one point I kind of hit a low. And I said, well, if I do this, or I’m supposed to be doing that because I was just getting all this information. It was just too much. I was hearing things from my ancestors. It’s, it’s not just aliens, no.

No, no. Of course not.

I was hearing in my ancestors first, before the aliens. And it’s like, what is going on? It was over, especially when you have ancestors like mine. It’s, it was just too much. I’m like, well, OK, if I just if I end it. If I end my life, if I take it, I can stop everything. I was arguing with them after I saw this ball of light. Because, I didn’t like what they were showing me. I didn’t like it. And I said, well, if I’m a part of your precious plan or whatever – And keep in mind, that was just my ego from all this information coming to me, I didn’t, I didn’t realize all of it. And this is why they don’t drop this information on people. This is exactly why they don’t do it. So, you know, it was a lot. I still just know that stuff has to happen. And they told me it. You’re nothing special. If it’s not you we’re just going to choose someone else. And that’s it. And when they said it like that, I’m like, you know, I started thinking about it more, and trying to accept. And trying to find ways to, you know, just go on with having a normal life.

And eventually, that year was really, really bad, after I saw that ball of light. Which at the time, my ex-wife, she saw it too. It terrified her. And eventually, after all of these experiences, she ditched me in Florida. I ended up moving to the Middle East. And I taught English there for a while, and I did that. And then I came back to the States. I have been all over, done a lot of things, but it was a lot of change after I saw that. But like, I went from having this kind of life, you know? My church kicked me out.  Called me a, called me a demon. Because, I saw a ball of Light. And we were having a meeting, and they were getting on my case, and stuff. I was in a Christian metal band, and I would tour around the country playing concerts. Doing prayers of salvation, living in a van with five dudes. Spreading the gospel. I’m sorry, that sounds a lot like Jesus to me. Yeah. And that’s what we were doing. And we were really reaching a lot of young people coming from broken homes that listen to the angry music. And we were making positive, positive words and really trying to help people. So, like, no matter what I’ve always done, the center of it’s been about helping people. And we would go around and they were getting on me saying, you need to be a better husband and stuff like this.

And just really attacking , and I quoted  something out of the Bible. And they said that’s not in the Bible and there’s a whole Bible on the table. And I grabbed the Bible and I opened up the Bible. And it was the exact page and the exact verse of what I said was in there. And yeah, they pulled out the whole demon. And I opened up. And these were like the elders of the church. I wasn’t going around talking about my ball of light experience publicly. And I was a pastor. I went to Bible College. I wasn’t just some guy attending there. I was the future youth pastor. I was on the worship team. I was a big part of it.

You know, I put help with the floors, their mission trips, everything. And when they called me a demon, that hurt so bad. And it’s like, you know, I, the only reason I at that time became a Christian is because, when I read the Bible, and I heard the alien encounters in there.  I said, I can get behind this. And I would ask Christians, I would ask Christians, you believe this? They said, absolutely. And then as soon as I start to share my story, that’s a lot like these guys. Oh, I’m crazy, right? It’s, it’s, I think people the answers are in history, not just the Bible, all the ancient, all cultures, all religions have so much light, we just got to learn to see it.

You know, I just interviewed a chap yesterday. Who I’ve had on my show before. He wrote a book called Escaping from Eden. And his latest book, which I just

I’ve heard of that!

You’ve heard of him? It’s that he was a pastor for like thirty three years. He taught theology. He studied all the ancient texts, not only the Bible. He studied linguistics. A really amazing, amazing change. One of my favourite people to talk to. And he had an accident, and he hurt his leg. And so he thought, well, what I’ve got this time, I’ll go through Genesis again, because there’s things in here that really don’t sit with me. And so he did. And through his studies, he came to the conclusion, that the Genesis stories are about aliens creating humankind.

Absolutely. I could add on that really, really, really. Absolutely. Oh, I wish this was a video.

Yeah, I can see. Yeah.

But, absolutely. The story, Genesis, actually comes from ancient Sumeria. It was it was an oral tradition. And that’s exactly what it is. Even in the Bible. It’s, it’s plural. It uses and they made us in their image to be like, they’re like, it’s plural. It’s nothing singular at all. And even down to the rib cage, do you know the rib, the rib of the human body holds the highest amounts of human DNA is one of the spots on the body that contains the most DNA in the fatty part around the ribs.


And what was used to make Woman? You know, it’s genetic engineering

Genetic Engineering, yeah.

And that’s just a story of one creation.

You should go and listen to the episode. It’s really cool. In fact, I just replayed it last week as one of my replays, my last month. Escaping From Eden. And it’s really, you’ll find it’ll resonate so well with you. And, of course, this guy experienced the same things when he started speaking out and saying – Hey, look. He taught pastors to become pastors. That’s how involved he was. He was the archdeacon in an Anglican Church. He was the church doctor. So he did the exorcisms. Or, I don’t know what they call them in the church? But, he did those sort of things as well. You know, he was really, really, heavily involved in. And now he’s got people who don’t even want to know him. Most of them have been pretty good. Some people who say, well, we’ll still be friends, but I’m not going to read your book.

Hmm, it’s how it goes.

Yeah. Really, really, cool.

I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of it. And I same thing after – And I lived in the Middle East as well. To live there and take it all in. It’s a, it’s a lot to absorb. No doubt about it. And I’ve you know, it’s like I’ve done one big circle through it all. And one thing, I’m so happy I took the time to learn these things. But, another big part of my experience is, I, I’ve done my genealogy on both sides of my family. And it’s, it’s, a complex one. And on the one side, it’s Native American. I come from the tribe. It’s called the Beneki or the Abenaki, which Anunnaki, Abenaki? And my great grandfather was the chief. We come from the medicine workers. We don’t call ourselves shaman. Very much like the Aboriginals, the same kind of situation. And even in New Zealand, you know, that same situation. And we have our origin story of being, rising up out of the lake and creating. You know, the same origin story we all have..

That’s just what I talked to Paul about yesterday. He was talking about his beings coming out from the lake, yeah.  Genetically modifying the humans. Abducting, human women, using them for the hybrid program. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And the Abenaki, the Abenaki, you know, my grandmother, my –  And everyone on that family, especially my aunt, she has a lot of abilities. And she’s been like teaching me. I didn’t know that side of my family. I didn’t know this about me. And it’s, you know, it’s a magical. My great grandfather, he built two magical canoes. He built magical canoes. And one of them was sold to Avery Rockefeller, like the Rockefeller. And him and Avery Rockefeller would take this magical canoe and go on one lake, and go on these magical canoe rides. Out on this one lake.

You know, my Native American great grandfather that lived out in the wilderness hanging out with Avery Rockefeller. What was going on? It’s weird, interesting, strange, strange things. And the origin –  I’ve also last year, I got to go to my family’s petroglyphs. We have petroglyphs and they’re grey alien heads. I went there to the site and check this out. Those are the ones that are public. I’m friends with archaeologists, an underwater diver. And before I went up there, I got in touch and she found out I’m Abenaki and I got in touch with the tribe council and they just got a land trust. They just preserved an area. And there is a significant rock to my people, that the public does not know about. And I was lucky enough to get brought to the site and see the petroglyphs that are underwater that no one knows is there. There is this very important rock. And I got to just sit there and vibe with my ancestors and it’s deep. It’s deep stuff. It’s deep stuff.

Yeah. I  was just going to say, it, they tend to –  The Star People or Sky People, whatever you want to call them? I call them Star  People. That’s been my name for them for my entire life. They follow families through generations.

They do.

They follow people, specific souls actually, through reincarnation lines down the generations, actually.

And for the abductions, one thing I’ve learned in my research from adduction aspect and these hybrid programs, maternal. I’ve noticed a trend where like, for example, a mother can have a son and a daughter.  They can be abductees. But when that son has children, it won’t work that way unless his wife is an abductee. Have you caught onto that trend? Is that something you’ve noticed?

I can’t say that I’ve gone into it in that much detail, because, the hybrid program has not been part of my journey. So it’s not something that’s, you know? Like for you, it’s part of you. It’s part of your story. But for me, to the best of my recollection, it’s not been part of my story. But, of course, there’s so many different species that are out there! That are contacting, ah that us contactee’s see, and that are abducting people that, you know, it’s a pot luck as to who you get really, isn’t it?

It really is. And like I said, it wasn’t always hybrid. When she was with the Arcturians, and the one she called the Nordics, whether they were Lyrians or Pleadians, they’re all the same thing. They’re all they’re all coming from the man’s system like Kepler sixty-two, Lyra’s Star Constellation. That’s why we call it the man system. It’s where a lot of cats came from, no pun intended.

Do you know what? One of my favourite memories.  One of my favourite memories that I had of star people, is lying on ground somewhere with two beings that were feline.  Feline, they had

The Leonie.

I don’t know what species – It’s never bothered me what species, they were.  But I love these beings. And we were just lying on the ground. I had my head resting on the tummy of one of them, who was lying on their back. And we were just chatting away about, I don’t know? But it was just very relaxed and it was very loving. And it’s my favourite memory. My favourite memory. And I think it’s why I’ve always loved cats. I love cats so much.

They’re amazing. They’re known as the Leonie. They come from the Mann system. They’re apart. They’re also more humanoid. They’re actually not cats. They would get extremely offended

No, they just had feline, feline ­– I remember their fur was very, very short.  More like thick hair, you know? Very soft, beautiful beings, beautiful. And I don’t talk about them often, because, that’s one of my favourite memories. Is just lying down, just the three of us. Just enjoying each other’s company, you know? It wasn’t stressful. No pressure, was just very loving. And you know, to me, it’s never mattered where a being comes from. What matters to me, is how they make me feel.

Exactly. And use your intuition. And that ,that can tell you everything you need to know,

Absolutely, absolutely.

regardless of what they look like, because they’re some really ugly ones, that are actually sweethearts. And there’s some pretty ones, that aren’t so pretty damn well.

That’s what I’m always telling people. The ones that are the very worst ones are absolutely beautiful, the Greek God type. You would look at them and drop your drawers. But they’re the ones, you really don’t want to have anything to do with, nothing!  They’re the ones that control this system currently.


But not for much longer.


Their day is rapidly drawing to a close. So we getting kind of like all over the place here. Let’s get back to your mom. I’m so sorry, that’s my fault. I get excited and – when I when I talk about this. Because, obviously, it’s a huge part of my life. I mean, it’s been it’s as much part of my life as breathing is, you know?

Yeah, absolutely.

So how did this – I assume after a while, the interest died down, for your mom and your family?

Yes. My mom cut it off. She stopped, like, my Aunt wouldn’t pick up the phone when it rang. And my mom stop meeting MUFON.  They came out two other times. They recorded her hypnosis sessions. Although I just so, I can’t find those tapes that they have. I definitely think they would be on record. Who knows what happened, though? Who knows? But and at the same time, my mom and grandma, we recorded it as well. But, they experienced some sort of audio difficulty. During the time my baby monitors would go off constantly. A lot of weird situations. And this was like before, and after the crash. My baby monitors would really do wonky things, per my mom would tell me. Some of these things, I don’t remember all that well.  But other things I do. Certain parts stuck with me. A lot of it, it’s blurred. I don’t remember the baby monitors coming off, but from what I’m told, that’s what was going on.

But, it was it was a lot of different stuff going on. And my mom basically just cut it off, because, she wanted to protect me. And what these beings were doing with her, if she would went really public with it, this would have been the Rosewell of New Jersey. And my mom, knew that kids are ruthless. And I would have went to school. And people would have aliens are raping your mum!  And you know, like just really inappropriate. And she didn’t want that life for me. And she sacrificed everything in order to protect me.

Of course.  Of course, as you would. As you would. Yeah, of course. And I can see, that as difficult as this has been for you, this journey has been. It’s also prepared you for what you are doing now, which is educating people.

Yeah, it’s been a journey. And having  the knowledge of these things being real at such a young age – and actually, you know, a lot of us, we need to see something, to believe it. And even with having a UFO crash behind my house. And my mother being an abductee, and hearing this. Even, with all of that, it still took a while. And honestly, the first real nail in the coffin was when I saw that energy being. That’s, that’s what really, really did.  And by that time, I was you know, I was very involved with church elevating. And ­ but that that was like I’ve seen a lot of weird things and this, but that there’s no doubt in my mind anyway. Even though I don’t know how I could have had. I always had doubt, because, I knew what the consequences were. And my mother knew, what the consequences were. And it was better

To have – yeah,

to just , back of the mind.  Back of the mind.

I totally understand that.

You never forgot about it. And occasionally, like when I would have band people coming over, you know, and we would all be hanging out, my mom would open up. She would share her experience, and they would listen. Some people did believe us, because, they knew our character. And then there’s some people that we would know for years, you know, five or six years, people I would hang out with every day. I would eventually tell them.  I don’t go up to people, hey, I’m Robert Earl White. I had a UFO crashed.

Maybe now I do. But before, I didn’t do that, I didn’t. That’s not how I did. I would wait a couple of years until I knew someone’s character. And if I could trust them. Then I would tell them. And then sometimes, they still laughed at me. And I’m like, you know, and then, I’ve had many tears over that. Because, that feeling of knowing. When no doubt in your mind something happened, and no one believes you. And that’s why I made it my mission to help people. Like, for example, maybe my mom didn’t have to drink, you know?  To bury this, if she had other people to talk to.

Yeah, exactly.

And I hope by sharing this story, you know, it can encourage people to come out and share their experiences. Because, we all have a little piece of the puzzle. And when we put it all together, that’s only the time, we can start to understand these things. That’s what it takes, for sure.

Oh, good for you, Robert. Well done. I know it’s very, very difficult. And like I can only speak for me. I’ve always been pretty fearless about speaking out.  Because, I really don’t give a, what people think of me, you know?


I’ve developed a, over the years  – I’m,  I’m sixty five this year. And over my lifetime I’ve gotten to the stage, well really in my thirties. I got to that stage where I thought, who cares what people think? You know? I just don’t care anymore. Because, I know what’s true. I know. And if they’re still sleeping, well that’s their journey. That’s where they’re at this point in time. And like yourself, it’s about helping people to know that they’re not alone. Know that we, as a species, are not alone. And that there is so much coming for us, great things coming. Like this year, I think it’s going to be a very exciting year in terms of what’s coming up. Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. There’s a lot of things  – Always listeners, please remember this. There are two narratives to everything, and this is a complex one. For example, my stepdad, he works for space force, NASA. He builds things and some of the things he’s built and he’s warned me of. And what’s going on right now, people, they cannot. There’s as a lot going on. And my stepdad warned me, he said, you have a lot of work to do. And I’m taking one player’s narrative. I’m twisting it, and I’m playing the people’s disclosure. Which kind of started a movement. Few people I work with, ‘we are the disclosure’. Because I believe disclosure comes from the experiencers like you and I. The abductees. Not from the ones that have spent everything to bury it, cover it and make us question our sanity. You know?

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

We are the disclosure.

Absolutely. I agree with that. And that’s one of the reasons I started my podcast. Educate, you know? To spread the word. Good for you! And I knew when you started talking, that, that all these experiences have prepped you for what you’re doing now. Which is what you’ve been trained to do.  What they, what your Star People have taught you to do, your entire life. Even though you may not have conscious memory of it.

They’re really good at that.

Very good.

They ­– whether you know you’re on the path, or not. It don’t really matter what turns you take. They’re going to make sure you end up where you needed to be, for whatever reason they want you there to be for. And you know, like, for example, when it comes – although I’m not religious, I know the religion so well. That if someone is religious, I can explain these beings in a way, where they don’t have to leave their religion. This ain’t about leaving their religions. It’s about understanding it differently. Yeah, that’s, that’s all we have to do. We don’t have to leave any of it. We just got to look at it differently. And remember, one important thing. Love is the key. Love one another. And I say that laughing, and joking. But, it’s like really, really hard to do.

It is! You know, one of the things, the most profound thing, that I recall one of my, my favourite Star People saying to me, was this. And I’ve repeated it so many times. My listeners are probably sick of it. But, it hit me on a soul level. They said to me, Marianne –  He said to me, Marianne. When you do anything, you must do it from your heart. When you think, think from your heart. When you speak, speak from your heart, when you act, from your heart.


And those are  the most profound, wise words, that I’ve ever heard. And since then, I’ve really tried to live my life, like that. And sometimes you know, Robert, we don’t have to say anything to people. Just being in their presence, our energies automatically – We say more with our energetic bodies, than we do with our words.

Absolutely! And I I’ve always been a high energy person. I’ve always been  – a lot of stuff I do on my tick tock. That’s comedy, but it’s actually strategic. I have my ways of getting around things and telling people what’s going on. But, if they’re not ready yet, they can laugh at it.  I said, what is it about? Is it about how many people I’m reaching? Or is it about how good I, I’m making myself look? How educated I’m making myself look? How about I drop the ego and my pride? How about I drop that? And let’s see if the message gets out there.

It’s about planting seeds, isn’t it?

That’s what I’ve learned. That’s exactly what it is. And trees take a long time to grow.

Oh, sometimes they do.

But when they get there, it’s beautiful.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. My Star People told me back in the eighties, that humanity had to reach a certain level, where there are a certain number of people ‘awake’. Before there would be a tipping point, that would cause the things that are happening. Now, that happened about two and a half, three years ago. That tipping point was reached. And since then there’s been a huge polarization. And I talked with Paul about this yesterday as well. There’s been a huge polarization. You know, we’ve had people standing up for what’s right. Like, we’ve had the MeToo movement. We’ve had people where they’ve seen injustices, questioning the government. Questioning what they’re taught. Questioning everything. And this is . . .

That’s it!

And this is, – Oh, it’s such an exciting time to be alive! To be a part of. And for us to do our work now. To help educate people, even if they laugh at us. I don’t care. At least it gets them thinking, and questioning. And most people, if they don’t discard it outright, they’ll at least –  And, I always say to people. Listen, you don’t have to believe a word I say. What I ask you to do, is question. How does this sit within me? How does this sit in my heart? Does it resonate with me? Does it feel right? Or does it make me feel uncomfortable? Uneasy. Scared? You know? Take what resonates with you and discard the rest. And then . . .


Question everything! Yeah, question everything.

Because, with the right question, you get to find the right answer.

Where can people find you, if they want to know more about you? Where can they find you?

I have the link, the DirectMe link, which should be in the description of this. If you click on that. I have the YouTube documentary, three-part documentary. Along with the interview I did with the woman, who’s in part three.  She’s an amazing person, Elaina Denan. We work together, that’s the whole ‘We Are the Disclosure’ thing. On top of that, she was an archaeologist in Egypt for many years. She was born in France. She made a book of ‘One-Hundred and Ten Different Species’. She’s in contact with the Pleadians. We’ve been working together. She heard my mother’s story and she’s been through the exact same thing – a little different, but phenomenal story. So we’ve been working together. We started doing it right around the same time, and she’s doing really, really well. She just did an interview on her channel with a former, area fifty-one employee. And he died four days after releasing the thing.

What’s your channel called? Your YouTube channel called?

Robert Earl White. Order of Light, that’s the group I’ve named, and you know, that’s the mission. To shed light onto darkness. To shed the veil, to raise the density.

What about Social Media? What Social Media are you on? So people can follow you there.

I have TikTok. Robert Earl White, Order of Light on TikTok. I have a Facebook, Robert Earl White and YouTube. I have a Clapper  account, I use that as well. But in the DirectMe link, if you click in that, you can access all the other links as well. So mostly just TikTok and YouTube. I’ve just been so busy. I spend most of my time in messages, talking to experiencers. But, if you use the name Order of Light or Robert Earl White. I come up on just about everything

Robert, thank you so much for your time today. It’s been an absolutely fascinating conversation. And I can see how these experiences have impacted your life. And made you who you are, where you’re going, and you in your life’s journey. So I really appreciate you taking the time to share with me and my listeners.

Thank you so much.

I found it incredibly sad, for both Robert’s mum and Robert, how she was threatened, intimidated, and coerced into going along with what the government, at that stage, wanted to be the ‘official’ story. That of a helicopter crashing. How traumatizing and terrifying that was for her? One, can only imagine. That government, and in fact most world governments, have a lot to answer for. Especially, in the way that they have treated people who have had experiences over the decades. Threatening, belittling, and encouraging the humiliation of those brave enough to speak up about it. All done through social manipulation and engineering of the general public’s attitudes towards this subject

And even with this ‘so-called’ new attitude of the government and military, that they are touting in all the medias since the release of that document a little while ago. That document that basically said, well we have these crafts, we don’t know what they are? Or, where they come from? But, they’re not Russian, or Chinese. They’re not swamp gas, weather balloons, Venus, or any other of the excuses we’ve used for decades. We don’t know what they are. I’m calling bullshit on that one! They absolutely do know what they are, and this experience Robert shared with us today, is a glaring example of their knowing.

But, they are only presenting a very watered down, very carefully worded document. Intended to pacify some of the general public. But, those of us like Robert and myself, we know the truth, from personal experiences. As do countless more of us out there. And as my Star People told me back in the eighties. If the world’s governments don’t release this information to humanity as a whole, the choice will be taken out of their hands. Will be taken out of their hands. The governments over the past three years have been slowly and steadily increasing the social manipulation, using social engineering, of the general public. To get them to the stage where they, for the most part, now accept, at least, the potential of life existing off this planet and visiting us.

However, they are also priming and presenting them as a ‘potential threat to National security’. But honestly, these beings are so very far advanced from us, that really if they wanted to destroy or take over humanity, they would have done so many times over by now. And there would have been nothing we could have done to stop them. So don’t buy into the ‘national security’ propaganda, that is being put out there for you all to absorb and accept. That’s nonsense! Utter and total rubbish!

My guest Robert, has the right idea. We, the people who have experienced these things first hand, we are the disclosure! Hopefully now more of us will start speaking up. And telling of our experiences, both good and bad with these beings, our neighbours and perhaps distant relatives, that do not live on this planet. But, indeed, visit us. It’s time for humanity to come of age and recognise that life, intelligent life, absolutely does exist off of this planet. It’s time for humanity to take its rightful place amongst our intergalactic neighbours. In the words of that fictional Star Trek captain, Jean Luc Picard:

Make it so

This episode’s bumper music is called: Welcome to Mars

Before I end this episode, I want to remind you all that this is the final episode for season 7. I’ll be taking a wee break off the digital waves, but keep an eye out for a promo with teasers from season 8 in the next few weeks. But, of course, this is only a break on here. Behind the scenes I’ll  be very busy interviewing and recording episodes for next season, doing social media posts etc. So, not actually a break for me, just a pause is all. I already have about 7 guests line up ready to interview. So a busy, but enjoyable time coming up.

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