{"id":1483,"date":"2021-09-30T21:46:09","date_gmt":"2021-09-30T21:46:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.walkingtheshadowlands.com\/?p=1483"},"modified":"2024-11-14T18:13:20","modified_gmt":"2024-11-14T05:13:20","slug":"episode-14-paranormal-investigations-with-james-gilberd","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.walkingtheshadowlands.com\/?p=1483","title":{"rendered":"Episode 14: Paranormal Investigations with James Gilberd"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Episode 14: Paranormal Investigations with James Gilberd<\/strong><\/p><\/h3><\/div>

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New Zealand is a very small country, consisting of two main islands the North and the South islands. We also are a relatively new country and so do not have the history that Great Britain, European countries, or even the USA does. But despite our relative newness, we do have a large number of paranormal encounters of the spirit and things that go bump in the night kind. Because of this, we have our fair share of people who want to investigate, or experience, or explain these events to their own satisfaction, or who simply want the thrill of experiencing the unknown.<\/p>\n

My guest tonight, is one such person. Actually, when I first was considering creating this podcast and who would be interesting for people to listen to, tonight\u2019s guest, was the very first person who came to my mind, when considering the paranormal field of study.<\/p>\n

I have been following his group and page for some time, partly because of professional courtesy, as I also run my own paranormal investigation group called Shadowlands Paranormal Investigations, that website is linked from this episodes page on my podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com<\/a> . And simply because I like and really appreciate his approach to this work, and I love his subtle and a bit dry sense of humour. Which is something that is quite necessary when working with people and especially in this field.<\/p>\n

So with that, I am very excited to begin this week\u2019s journey into this part of the shadowlands\u2026. Let\u2019s begin<\/p>\n

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James Gilberd<\/p><\/div>\n

I am very excited to introduce my guest for this episode. His name is James Gilberd.\u00a0 James was born in 1963, and currently lives in Wellington, New Zealand with his artist wife Denise Durkin and their cat Leo. \u00a0He is a professional photographer by day\u2026. Running a very successful photography gallery from 37 Courtney Place, in Wellington City, called Photospace<\/a>. This gallery is one of New Zealand\u2019s few specialist photographic art galleries.<\/p>\n

His hobbies include playing the drums in various bands over the years, from the post-punk era (1981) to his current band, Kosmo-0, paranormal investigations, and authoring several books \u2013 with likely more to come at some stage, I imagine.<\/p>\n

James has twice been a guest speaker at Paracon Australia, and his special area of the paranormal which fits in with his profession, is trying to explain photographs that may show paranormal phenomena.<\/p>\n

He is co-author with Jo Davy of a really interesting book, which I have personally read twice now called : Spooked: Exploring the paranormal in New Zealand <\/a>\u00a0The book chronicles the Strange Occurrences crew as they search for the truth behind the dark stories of some of New Zealand\u2019s most infamous, haunted sites. In exploring the nature of ghosts, the team has interviewed mediums, psychics, fellow paranormal investigators, skeptics, and a parapsychologist. They look at the history of paranormal research and delve into the then existing science.<\/p>\n

We will be talking about this book during this episode.\u00a0 James has also authored two other books:<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \u201cEdwin J Smith \u2013 Paranormal Investigator<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n
  2. \u201cScraper \u2013 A novel about Punk<\/a>\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    All of his books are linked on the podcast episode page of the website, so you can check them out or purchase them for yourselves if interested And, he also has edited a book on photography called \u201cFiat Lux: 51 photographs by Andrew Ross\u201d<\/p>\n

    As if that all is not enough, James is a founding member and the leader of the Strange Occurrences<\/a>, paranormal investigation group, based in Wellington, New Zealand. The group was first formed in 2005 and over the years has slowly evolved into what it currently is today, with new members added from the original eight. All of the original eight members had personally had experiences they were unable to attribute to normal or any known natural causes, which was what prompted their interest in this field. So with this intro, here is my guest James:<\/p>\n

    Paranormal Investigations With James Gilberd
    \n<\/strong><\/h3>\n

    Marianne:<\/strong> Hey thanks very much for joining us today James, I have been very much looking forward to talking with you, especially since I know you have been very busy lately.<\/p>\n

    James:<\/strong> Yeah same. We had an exhibition opening last Thursday. A lot of people turned up. We run photographic exhibitions there. Yeah, I\u2019ve been showing photography exhibitions up there for about twenty years, and I have a photographic studio \u2013 been there all day today. I run photography courses, and I\u2019ve worked in photography for a long time. And, photography has been my way into the paranormal, I guess. It\u2019s a big part of what kind of started off the paranormal investigation group, the photography angle.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Right. \u00a0I\u2019ve actually read your book twice. It\u2019s good and I really liked it. I have a few things marked in here that stuck out to me when I re-read it in preparation for this conversation. I was really impressed with this book. I thought you guys did a really awesome job. Perhaps you might like to tell the listeners how you got into this field to begin with?<\/p>\n

    Well, I think like many people in the paranormal field \u2013 my interests started off as a young teenager. I\u2019m talking about the 1970\u2019s in my case \u2013 \u2018cause, I\u2019m quite old. So, on TV \u2013 it seemed like every Saturday night, if it wasn\u2019t the Osmond family, Uri Geller was on television a lot. He was bending forks, and spoons, and he claimed to be doing so by psychic power. And, I find him very interesting. There was also those Eric von Danekon films, you know \u2013 about the visitors from space. And, I read a book called \u2018Supernature\u2019 by Lyal Watson, which really sparked my interest in\u2026. It was science, but it was outside the normal realms of what would be considered science. So I read all those books. I didn\u2019t do anything very much about it.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And, I guess in my mid-twenties I started to have some interesting experiences\u2026. The\u2026. You know things\u2026. \u00a0A few odd things happened, which I don\u2019t particularly want to talk about. It was so long ago. But, they made me worry a little bit about my mental health. I am sure a lot of people who experience paranormal events, or things that could be paranormal\u2026. There\u2019s always that worry that it maybe it\u2019s just going on inside your head, and you can\u2019t control it.\u00a0 So it was interesting, but I tried to sort of shut it down. I didn\u2019t want it to happen, and I kind of progressively switched it off. I don\u2019t know if I had any particular psychic abilities, or anything like that, I probably don\u2019t. But, enough things happened that, you know, I got a bit scared and a bit worried. And I thought, no, I don\u2019t want this to happen. So I progressively shut it down, and it kind of stopped.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And then, the Spooked book, the prologue. There\u2019s quite an account of an event that happened to Denise \u2013 who I\u2019m now married to, and myself in Whanganui. It was such a scary event \u2013 I won\u2019t relate it all, because it is in the book, and also if you look up the book and go to whatever it\u2019s on? Amazon, I guess, you can read this whole account free \u2013 it starts off\u2026. It\u2019s probably better that you read it, then I tell you it\u2026. Because frankly, I\u2019m a bit sick of telling it. But, it was pretty scary. And was so scary, that we had to flee this particular hotel in the middle of the night. We were just terrified, and shaky, and crying, and we just had to leave. We didn\u2019t get back to Wellington, until like, five o\u2019clock in the morning. \u00a0And, only then did we begin to calm down. I mean, we\u2019re talking about a really upsetting event. And, I still can\u2019t quite wiggle my skepticism and the rest of it. I can\u2019t really explain it. It\u2019s not something that\u2019s easily explainable in normal terms \u2013 and I haven\u2019t been able to write it off as its oh such and such\u2026. You know? And from that experience \u2013 Denise had it too. We simultaneously experienced this\u2026. Attack, seemed like. That one, it gave us greater sympathy and understanding for people that have experienced, unusual, unexplainable things. We know what it\u2019s like to be absolutely terrified.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    We experienced that once and quite frankly, I don\u2019t want to experience it again. Once was plenty. And two, it sort of sowed a seed, cause there\u2019s no one we could go and talk to. You know, we\u2019re not\u2026 We\u2019re not church people.. We\u2019re not religious. Had we been church people, you\u2019d probably go and talk to your minister, or your priest, and say look this happened\u2026\u00a0 But look, we didn\u2019t have that. We were just on our own, and there didn\u2019t seem to be anybody to approach about it. That changed\u2026. This was in the beginning of nineteen-ninety- nine. I think it was new years day \u2013 nineteen-ninety-eight or ninety-nine. A long time ago. It wasn\u2019t until two thousand and\u2026. I\u2019m going to say, late two thousand and five \u2013 Me and Mark Marriot had this sort of crazy idea that\u2026 Of forming this paranormal group. You know, from a few things coming together\u2026. We saw those T.A.P.S guys on TV. We thought\u2026. We were sitting there watching it at midnight on TV two or whatever it was on and I said hey! We can do this! And Denise was like \u2013 oh no, (laughing), you know, surely not. But Denise was recruited in pretty quickly. And suddenly, there were the four of us. We started the paranormal gro<\/span>up. <\/em><\/p>\n

    We didn\u2019t do anything much for a while, may be for six months. We put up a website, and we had a few meetings, but nothing really happened. And then, kind of come Halloween, or whatever it was \u2013 then suddenly the newspapers were interested. We were in the newspaper, with quite a big feature. And suddenly like, we are getting calls. You know, people are wanting to know stuff. A few people sent in photos for analysis, and we got to do a couple of investigations. And, a short time after that \u2013 yeah, a couple of other groups formed in our area. One in Wellington, and one in Palmerston North. Particularly the Palmerston North group \u2013 it was called Phoenix Paranormal. We did a lot of investigations with them. They were better at getting investigations then we were.\u00a0 So they invited us along, and we did some good stuff. Up-country, Napier, Waipukurau, Whanganui\u2026. You know we did various investigations up around Central, Lower North Island. We really cut our teeth. We learned a lot, and we had a good time doing it.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    We meet some really nice people along the way, and that continued for a while.\u00a0 And unfortunately\u2026. I don\u2019t want to dwell on this, cause it\u2019s kind of negative, but there were some quite negative people sort of in the paranormal community. And, some of those people contributed to things breaking down a bit.\u00a0 So that came to an end, and in a good way, not a bad way. But, we were starting to get our own investigations going in Wellington by then. And, TV and newspaper, and radio were interested. There weren\u2019t very many paranormal groups in the country at the time. And they would come to us as well as some of the other groups, and want to do stories, features\u2026. So we got on Radio NZ a couple of times. Got in the newspaper a couple of times, both local and regional. And TVNZ got a bit interested. TV Three got a bit interested, and you know they want to do those things, and you know to be honest, some of it\u2019s a bit of a leg pull. I mean, it\u2019s not that serious. And they would do funny little graphics and the ghost busters theme and stuff like that\u2026. And they\u2019re doing that again \u2013 how original, but we quite like the coverage cause it \u2013 you know, I\u2019m a self confessed media whore so\u2026. \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

    I know you are sick of speaking about this James \u2013 but when I first read your book and the story of your encounter in the hotel, that got you into this field\u2026. When I was reading it, I got the impression that you might have picked something up from that church you photographed,\u00a0 before you got to the hotel.<\/p>\n

    Yeah, well that<\/em>\u2019s, that\u2019s what we think as well. On the way down to Whanganui \u2013 we drove down from Ruapehu. We\u2019d been at the Chateau. I played in a covers band at the time, and we\u2019d done this gig at the Chateau. It was really good. But, it was like six hours and we didn\u2019t finish until two or three in the morning. We were really tired.\u00a0 So we left the next day, and we thought well instead of driving all the way back to Wellington, let\u2019s just make a bit of a trip of it. So we went to the train crash place \u2013 So on the way from the Chateau we drove around the base of the mountain and we visited the scene of the <\/em>Tangiwai<\/em><\/a><\/span> disaster, which was a very bad train crash \u2013 I think it was New Year\u2019s eve in\u2026. I\u2019m going to say nineteen-fifty-three. Queen Elizabeth was in the country, she\u2019d just been crowned and her job was to read on the radio, the names of all the people who had died in that tragedy. It was on Christmas eve. It was really bad, but before my time.\u00a0 So we visited that site, and it is quite a haunting place with the river coming down from the mountain.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, then we drove into<\/em> Raetihi<\/em><\/a><\/span>, and as you drive in, there\u2019s and old church on the hill. And, I\u2019d seen a nice photo of it \u2013 I thought, oh yeah, I\u2019d like to take a photo, but I\u2019d like to get a little closer, go up and see the church. And what I didn\u2019t realise \u2013 I didn\u2019t just want to hop over the fence. So, we went around the front and we asked permission.\u00a0 And, it involved going onto a marae. So, I kind of rocked up with Denise, and my camera, and said hey, do you mind if we go up and take photos of the church? And, there were three older men sitting there on the marae, and they kind of looked at each other and looked a bit dubious, but they said yeah it\u2019s ok.\u00a0 So we went up there, and you know to be honest, the whole thing just didn\u2019t feel right! Sometimes you just know your transgressing \u2013 even though they said it was ok. It sort of wasn\u2019t\u2026.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, we went up there. I took a few photos. I was pretty uncomfortable. So we left pretty quickly. And, then we drove from Raetihi, down to Whanganui, and it\u2019s quite a strange route. Kind of heavy and overcast, and with nothing else on the road. Finally get to Whanganui. The place was deserted, was quiet, and the whole trip just seemed strange \u2013 like we were a little bit in another time. You know, there was no body else about.\u00a0 And, it was just odd, you know. It was not like any other car trip. And, it did seem like we might have transgressed on that marae, and you know this was like, late last century. Maybe I just wasn\u2019t as aware of those things as we\u2019ve become now days. We\u2019ve become more attuned to \u2013 to Maori culture.\u00a0 But, I wonder if that was what it was, because, this thing in the hotel room that kind of frankly came at us in the middle of the night \u2013 I thought it was a man dressed in black. A dark figure. Denise thought it was a big dog. <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And, as it turns out \u2013 you know, a large black dog is often like a spiritual guardian. So if you transgress, if you break a tapu, it\u2019s said that a black dog can be a protector of that tapu. And, it can, it can avenge it, itself. Do you know what I mean? I\u2019m not saying that [inaudible]\u2026. But maybe, that\u2019s what it was?\u00a0\u00a0 There are black dog stories from all around the world, and actually, near the end of the book we met a parapsychologist from England who\u2026. Simon\u2026. Forget his name, sorry, but he was travelling around New Zealand, going to places. And, he met us, and came on an investigation with us. Which was really cool. And, he was studying black dog stories, from different cultures, including New Zealand. That was his personal sort of hobby. His personal hobby, interest, to find out these stories about black dogs, so\u2026. I guess we had one of those for him. At least Denise did.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah. Very cool, so that was my\u2026. When I first read your book, that was my very first impression. That hit me straight away. As soon as\u2026. As soon as saw the photograph, without even reading your experience. Oh, they took something from there with them. Where did they go from there? And, I could feel it straight away. Yeah\u2026.<\/p>\n

    That\u2019s interesting, \u2018cause, it took us a while \u2013 I won\u2019t say, come to that conclusion, but it took us a while to consider that as a strong possibility. Don\u2019t really have any conclusions. Don\u2019t know what it was\u2026. But, I\u2019d say that\u2019s a strong possibility, and it\u2019s interesting that you got that feeling about it, just from the photos.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Yeah, just from the photo, from the first time I read your book. Even before I got to your experience later on. As soon as I saw that photo \u2013 I thought, ohhh there\u2019s something just not\u2026. Something just doesn\u2019t feel right about that\u2026. So yeah, that was really interesting, and I found that to be quite fascinating. I\u2019m going to put a link on this episodes webpage, on the www.walkingtheshadowlands.com<\/a> podcast website to your book on Amazon, and hopefully you will get people visiting it.<\/p>\n

    The book is no longer available in print \u2013 or so I am told. I\u2019ll bet there\u2019s a whole pile of boxes of them in a warehouse somewhere, but, I was trying to get some more copies. But, I can\u2019t get them, and so, it\u2019s only available as a digital book now.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Oh wow\u2026. Well a digital book, is still a book isn\u2019t it<\/p>\n

    It\u2019s a book, and I get paid if they sell a copy. So does Jo Davy the co-author of the book.\u00a0 Digital books good. It\u2019s also cheaper than the hard copy. They pop up on Trade Me occasionally, and in second hand book shops. It\u2019s kind of funny to see that, but on Trade Me you can pick it up for ten or fifteen dollars and\u2026.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    I know I paid $40.00 for my copy.<\/p>\n

    Good, good, \u2018cause, I got some of that\u2026. But, if someone buys it on Trade Me, I don\u2019t get anything. But, it\u2019s getting hard to find now is what I am saying\u2026. Yeah.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    If they get enough requests for it\u2026. Maybe the publishers might redo it?<\/p>\n

    Well I\u2019ll tell you what \u2013 I doubt they\u2019ll reprint it, but you never know\u2026. I\u2019ll tell you what, I still stand by everything in the book, and it\u2019s a wee while since we wrote it, but I re-read it myself recently. You know, earlier this year I guess, and I have learned a lot since then. But I don\u2019t want to retract anything. Do you know what I mean?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Right! Right, of course. Because, this is what you knew at the time and we\u2019re always learning, and we\u2019re always learning new things. But, I really liked Spooked. I like the way you laid it out. I like the way that you go into the scientific aspect of it. And yet, you don\u2019t discount the possibility that\u2026. Well, of something else \u2013 you know? You\u2019re not so\u2026. I feel like you have a healthy balance in the book<\/p>\n

    That\u2019s really hard to maintain, that balance is\u2026. You know, some people would just say, you\u2019re sitting on the fence. Or, you\u2019re refusing to commit one way or the other \u2013 \u2018cause, you know, I get it from both sides, because, I\u2019m a member\u2026. Look I\u2019m a member of New Zealand Skeptics, and I find that really interesting. There are a lot of really clever people, you know. And, boy if you want to know anything about anything scientific or medical, you know, you just ask about it on the FB group, and there\u2019s always people who just know about stuff!\u00a0 And, I mean, they\u2019re actually a nice bunch of people. But, I would have to say\u2026. Maybe calling it a monoculture is a little bit harsh. But, what I would say is a lot of people in skeptics come from a similar background and perspective\u2026. I mean, it\u2019s not ALL bearded white men like me, but, (and women). But, there\u2019s not many people outside of European culture for example\u2026. I don\u2019t think there are many \u2013 I might be wrong, but I don\u2019t think there are many \u2013 sort of artists. More scientists than artists.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    So they come from a place, and I think that\u2019s a good place, and it\u2019s one perspective. But, it\u2019s far from the only perspective. And, I understand that\u2026. About fifteen percent of people on earth. That\u2019s one five, fifteen. A fraction of people on earth, actually share that rational, analytical perspective on life and the world. The other eighty-five percent have different perspective. And, I think that\u2019s really interesting. You know the fifteen percent think they\u2019re right all the time. What about the other eighty-five percent? What about the other way to looking at things? And that intrigues me.\u00a0 You get shot by both sides. I\u2019m not saying the skeptics are shooting at me, \u2018cause, they\u2019re not. They\u2019re actually quite accommodating of what I\u2019m doing with the paranormal. But, I also get shot at by people who are anti-skeptic And; I think that\u2019s \u2018cause, skeptics have a bad name. You know, the word has a bad connotation. People think that it means cynical and\u00a0definitely in some cases, in some people, it does mean cynical. Skeptics can be quite dismissive of people with other world views. You know what I mean?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And, it\u2019s\u2026. It\u2019s hard to sit and maintain that balance, and be on the one hand rational, and kind of scientific, and on the other hand, be open.\u00a0 And, it\u2019s like you\u2019re standing on an edge and the wind is blowing you from both directions, and you can sway one way, and sway the other really easily. That, that\u2019s a difficult position to maintain. It\u2019s a difficult balance, and you know, sometimes when you\u2019re doing a paranormal investigation, you get pulled much more to the \u2013 if you like, the believing side\u2026. That, you, you really have to be much more open. \u2018Cause, if you go in kind of hard-nosed, skeptical, nothing will happen! You won\u2019t receive anything. You won\u2019t notice anything. It just doesn\u2019t work! It\u2019s \u2013 it\u2019s difficult\u2026.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    It is al\u2026. It is<\/em> a difficult thing to maintain. Would you mind sharing how you got involved with the skeptical society and how you spoke with them? \u2018Cause, I think it\u2019s absolutely brilliant!<\/p>\n

    Yeah it\u2019s funny. I joined out of curiosity. And, I\u2026. I am with them on a lot of stuff, but you know the\u2026. They were organising a conference in Wellington, and I thought well if I\u2019m going to join this group \u2013 I might as well get involved in this. So, I volunteered to be on the committee of people organizing the conference, and actually I didn\u2019t end up doing very much \u2013 but, you know, I was part of it. And, that\u2019s what counts!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, we went to the meeting. It was in the back room of a hotel downtown. And as soon as I\u2026. I\u2019ve got a beard, and I\u2019m sort of a middle-aged, white male \u2013 so as soon as I rock up to the hotel con, concierge, he looks at me and says: \u201cAh sir, the skeptics are meeting in the back room!\u201d Which I think is hilarious, that I look so much like one of them. So I go there, and there\u2019s like nine or ten other bearded white men, and a few women that\u2026. And, we thrashed out ideas to get this conference to happen. And, I sort of put my hand up and said, well I\u2019d quite like to speak. And, that was one of the most terrify\u2026. Everyone\u2019s most terrified of public meetings, but speaking in front of people with PHD\u2019s in various scientific and medical areas, and\u2026.\u00a0 They do a really high IQ audience, you know? And, it was a little intimidating. And, the only way to deal with it was with a bit of humour. Like, if I came in dry and cold I thought I would probably get picked to pieces.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And, if I made\u2026. If I started talking about things that were too spiritual\u2026. I didn\u2019t mention the Whanganui thing, for example. Probably get picked to pieces, so I stuck to photography. Because, I know about photography. And, I\u2019m on solid ground. I have a deep and long understanding of it, because I\u2019ve been a photographer for thirty-five, or something years. And, I have a degree in it. So, it\u2019s something I know about, and can talk about with, I think, equal authority to the other people in the room with their subjects. And, it\u2019s only when I strayed off photography that people start to sort of pull their beards, and mutter\u2026. You know \u2013 what\u2019s he talking about now? But, I didn\u2019t stray very far off it in the end.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    I don\u2019t think the podcast is still up? I mean there was a podcast of it for a while. I couldn\u2019t possibly listen to it. But, it went well, and I survived. It was only by humour, and Mark Marriot who\u2019s in our team. One of the founder members, had a great sense of humour, and that kind of rescued the situation. We\u2026. We did it like\u2026. We blacked the room out, and we walked in with our EMF meters and started pinging and twitching. And, we sort of did a sweep of the room. And, we walked between all these people, and Mark made some comment about \u2013 well, I\u2019m not detecting anything paranormal. But, there\u2019s an awful lot of skepticism in here! That cracked everyone up, that was a really good start.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    I thought that was absolutely brilliant, because that would have absolutely broken the ice, and they obviously took it the way you intended\u2026. That would have made them much more receptive to what you had to say, I feel. Yep. Brilliant, it\u2019s absolutely brilliant.<\/p>\n

    I think if, if you come across as being too serious about it, and you can\u2019t take a joke, you\u2019re not going to last long. \u2018Cause, people are going to\u2026. You know, you\u2019re going to run into people who you know, excuse the phrase, are going to pull the piss, right?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Right, absolutely! So, you\u2019re part of the skeptic\u2019s society, you do this work. And, I know New Zealand\u2019s only a small place so there\u2019s not really a lot of old places that we can investigate, here in New Zealand.<\/p>\n

    Yeah, you\u2019re absolutely right. I\u2019m very envious when I see these shows from the UK, and also the East Coast of the United States where, you know, they\u2019ve been around a couple of hundred, and something, years longer than we have. And so, it\u2019s very old places. But, you know, the oldest buildings that you\u2019ll ever go in, in New Zealand that still stand are from about the eighteen-sixties. Or, you might find something from the eighteen-forties if you are really lucky.\u00a0 But, beyond that, there\u2019s not much surviving Maori architecture. But, there are places, and sites. Like if you\u2019re in the UK, it\u2019s going to be an old house, or a castle, or a church, or a monastery, or something. In New Zealand, there are not so many of those things, so quite often, it\u2019s out in the bush. Or, it\u2019s down by the river, or it\u2019s on a coast line. It\u2019ll be in some outdoor location. And, you know, the land holds its stories, and you know, arguably it\u2019s eight hundred to a thousand years of human habitation in New Zealand. So, there\u2019s that length of history\u2026. <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Remember that ghost hunting show on TV, the New Zealand one? I mean, that was kind of early days. It was before we were doing our investigations, and those guys didn\u2019t have a lot to go on. In terms of how you do this stuff. So, I thought the investigations were a little undercooked, but\u2026. What was quite cool about those shows, is the people who did the research on the locations. And, they did a pretty good job of that. Actually researching the history of the places. And, the paranormal accounts. And, there\u2019s another book that came out after, with a whole lot more stories around different New Zealand locations. And, I have the book over there\u2026. I can\u2019t quite read it from this distance, but\u2026. I can probably give you the title of it. It\u2019s on the page, on the <\/em>Strange Occurrences<\/em><\/a> website, about other New Zealand books. There\u2019s a whole list.\u00a0 It\u2019s a really good resource. So, if you were travelling down the West Coast of the South Island, for example. It just lists all these locations, that have supposedly got ghosts, or other strange things happened. And, I want to go down and tick those off someday!<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Oh I was just thinking that exact same thing. It would be really nice to have that as a reference and just do a tour of New Zealand. When I win lotto eh! Do a tour of New Zealand and go and visit all these places.<\/p>\n

    Totally! I mean I want to do that too, and take my wife Denise with me, and\u2026. Take some pictures when we\u2019re there\u2026.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    That would be really brilliant. One of the things I really enjoy about your\u2026. In the book was that your team always has their tea and bikkies before any investigation starts.<\/p>\n

    Hmmm hmmm\u2026 well we\u2019re kind of\u2026. A lot of English people in the group. I mean Denise is British originally, and Mark is British, and Karen has \u2013 sort of British sensibilities, and Jo\u2026. And, Jo Davy, and Helen Gow. They were both Brits.\u00a0 So we\u2019ve got\u2026. Sort of had this British thing going, and Nick who joined later on. He was even more skeptical than I am\u2026. And this whole British thing going. And so, you know the tea and biscuits, were all kind of part of it. It\u2026. It also calms you down a bit.\u00a0\u00a0You sort of need to calm down a bit. Rather than drinking a lot of energy drinks, and stuff, and going out there like the energiser bunny! We don\u2019t sort of do that. We\u2019re kind of low-key. We don\u2019t run and scream, like that British woman on that \u2018Most Haunted\u2019 show either, hopefully, but\u2026. That was just craziness. That used to be on TV all the time you know? But, the American shows \u2013 they\u2019re really good, but they\u2019re kind of confrontational\u2026. I don\u2019t know what\u2026. What do you think about that Marianne?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    I don\u2019t like it! My attitude is you treat them with respect. You treat them as you would treat a living person. You talk to them respectfully; you are polite \u2013 you know? Just how you would a living person.<\/p>\n

    Yeah! Yeah, I agree. The\u2026. I was at work yesterday, on that topic, and you know, I have customers, and I\u2019m mostly polite. Sometimes, I get a bit ratty. But, a guy came up and he wandered in, off Courtney Place, and he asked me a question, and I just sort of started to answer him. And, I\u2019m not going to repeat, but he said\u2026. He kind of cursed something and said oh, I\u2019m going to go and find someone who speaks English and he stormed out. And you know, when he\u2026. When he sort of stormed out \u2013 I\u2019m not going to say it on this podcast, but I just oh for [inaudible] sake, you know, after him. \u2018Cause, I was just annoyed, and he turned around and swore at me again, and, wandered off and\u2026. It was just this kind of brief encounter that was\u2026. He was rude to me. I was rude back, he was rude back. Now, that could happen\u2026. I\u2019m not saying, he\u2019s not a nice person, I don\u2019t know. Maybe, we just weren\u2019t on the same wavelength, or something. I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 But, you might meet someone like that in a place, and the encounter might not be very good. It might not be very nice.\u00a0 You know what I mean?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And I don\u2019t know what you do when that happens, but, it could do. No harm done, but, you might meet someone who is\u2026. They don\u2019t want you there. You\u2019re on their turf. They don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on. They wish you would leave, and they wanna get rid of you. And, I mean, I may have met situations like that \u2013 I can\u2019t really be sure\u2026. Maybe it\u2019s just imagination. I don\u2019t know. But, I think it can happen like it does in normal life\u2026.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah, I think it can too. I know when I\u2019m out with my team, I always make a point of introducing, each team member. I explain what we are doing\u2026. And why we are there.<\/p>\n

    I guess\u2026 I\u2019m just guessing do you do some sort of protection\u2026. You do? It\u2019s something, for whatever reason, we\u2019ve never done. I\u2019m not quite sure why. But, I\u2019ve been with other groups occasionally where that has been done, and I\u2019m\u2026. I\u2019m comfortable with it. What I would say though is, if you\u2019re\u2026. I\u2019m sure you\u2019ll understand this, that if you\u2019re not in a very good place personally \u2013 say you\u2019ve got a bad head cold, or a bad mood, or a bit upset about something. Or, you\u2019re just generally overworked and stressed. It\u2019s better to just not do the investigation.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Correct, correct. Yeah<\/p>\n

    Like, just bow out. I\u2019ve done that once or twice, \u2018cause, I\u2019m the supposed leader, the group leader. I tend to take the lead. But, I remember going on a couple of investigations where, frankly, I didn\u2019t want to be there. I wasn\u2019t feeling that well. And, it just didn\u2019t go well. And, I think, I really shouldn\u2019t have done this. I shouldn\u2019t have engaged with this, while I was feeling like that. Be better to just stay in the tea room, and like, man the video screens, or something like that, and don\u2019t actually go out and try and engage with anything, because, that\u2019s when it might go a bit pear-shaped for you.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah, I agree. I absolutely agree! Attitude and energy you put out is really important, I think. And, if you are of the opinion that spirits are real, and that they exist, and if they are conscious, and are aware, they are going to pick up on any energy you are putting out. That\u2019s always been my attitude as well. I agree with you on that. Are there any experiences that you and your team have had that really stood out for you?<\/p>\n

    Yeah. Funnily enough, you know, we\u2019ve been doing\u2026. Ok, the number of paranormal investigations we\u2019ve done has probably fallen off a bit in the last five years, \u2018cause frankly, it\u2019s harder to get \u2018em now.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah, it is.<\/p>\n

    Wellington, is like\u2026. Nobody will let you in anymore, because of basically health and safety, or the buildings are earthquake prone. And, without like two men in hard-hats, present at all moments, or something like that. So we don\u2019t get the free reign of places, like we used to. And, most of the investigations we\u2019ve done, have been private houses and dwellings\u2026. And, we don\u2019t talk about those ones publically because, it\u2019s someone\u2019s private house. So, we don\u2019t put anything online about it. We just keep it between us, and the people. I\u2019ll talk about that one I mentioned later though, \u2018cause, the people were actually cool with me talking about it. But, this\u2026. The scariest thing that happened was, we went to the old fever hospital on Mount Victoria, in Wellington. It\u2019s kind of above Newtown. And, this place, it does have a reputation. And, you know, there\u2019s not many places that I\u2019ve been too, that I\u2019ve really thought are kind of active. But, this place would be one of them. It\u2019s now the SPCA.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    And before\u2026. It\u2019s been derelict, empty for a long time. But, for a while it was the Wellington Polytech Music School. And, I know that when it was \u2013 you know, the students used to like rehearse up there at night, and stuff. And a lot of them really, really, didn\u2019t like it! They didn\u2019t want to be there after hours, and there\u2019s a lot of accounts of like doors slamming on people\u2026. On people\u2019s faces. Stuff like that. You know, just strange things, strange noises with\u2026. We\u2019ve done three investigations up there, when it was an empty building. And, we\u2019ve done a couple more since it\u2019s been the SPCA, and you know, there has been other investigations done by other groups as well, up there. So, it\u2019s still a place to go.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    On the South end of the site is a derelict\u2026 Well, it\u2019s not derelict, it\u2019s a closed up part of the building, which is still a building site. And, you know, we\u2019ve been in it briefly once during the day. But, you\u2019re really not allowed to go in there, \u2018cause, it\u2026. It\u2019s just a health and safety hazard.\u00a0 Which is unfortunate, because that building, we uh \u2013 the first time we did an investigation at the fever hospital the guy let us in there. I\u2019m pretty sure that he wasn\u2019t supposed to. But, he did. So, we went in, and we did our stuff. And, you know, we\u2019d been there for ages. Eight or ten hours, or something, and most people had gone home. And, we\u2019re back in there.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    It\u2019s about\u2026. I\u2019m going to say, it\u2019s about one-thirty in the morning, at this stage. We\u2019re tired. We\u2019ve done enough investigation. There\u2019s only three of us left standing, everyone else has left. And, we\u2019re sitting upstairs in the balcony thing, talking about cars or something. It wasn\u2019t\u2026. We weren\u2019t\u2026. We\u2019d lost interest in ghosts by this stage. \u2018Cause, nothing had really happened.\u00a0 But, prior to that, I\u2019d had a bit of a good go, in the upstairs hallway, of actually trying to, kind of, get attention. Do you know what I mean? We\u2019re on the\u2026. I got a little bit more American, and I was being a little more confrontational. Not as confrontational as some of those guys, but more than I usually am. Right? Trying to pull something out. And, with me were Patrick, and Rob. And, Rob had had an experience in the building. Some\u2026. Like a decade earlier. He\u2019d been a security guard. A bad experience, where \u2013 it\u2019s in the book. His fellow security guard, who was a big \u2013 like Norwegian guy. Huge guy. He just upped and fled! And, ran down the fire escape and was gone. And, Rob kind of wondered, why? And, he thought well, if something scared him that much, I had probably better leave as well!\u00a0<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    So, he goes to leave\u2026 And, the door to the room that had the fire escape, which was the only way out of the top floor at the time slammed right in his face! The door handle fell out! So he couldn\u2019t get out of the building! The downstairs was all boarded off with plywood, and that. So, there\u2019s no way out. So, being Rob, he had a multi-tool on his belt, and he managed to get the door handle open. And, out of the building, and he said that guy, the big Norwegian guy, was terrified. He never spoke. He never said a thing about what it was that scared him. He just refused to talk about it!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    So Rob approached me, and said oh you guys. If you ever do an investigation there \u2013 like, can I come? And, he did. So that was his first investigation with us.\u00a0 So, you know, we\u2019re upstairs talking about cars. We\u2019ve lost interest, and there\u2019s this mighty big bang! And, we could feel it through the floor, like somebody really slamming a door hard, and you could feel it coming up through the building. We all kind of looked at each other, and thought \u2013 hmmm, wonder what that was? That was big! So, we go downstairs and have a look around, and of course, can\u2019t find anybody.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, we had cameras. You know, we had surveillance cameras going. There was nobody on those. There was nobody in the building. And uh, ok, we figured out which door it probably was. It was the only door that was unlocked. Which was the one we\u2019d been using. Thought, we\u2019d better go check around outside. So, we open the door, we go out. Patrick closes the door behind us. He doesn\u2019t lock it, he closes it. And, we get a few metres away, and behind us this door bangs again, just as hard \u2013 like this mighty big bang, right behind us!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, we all kind of turned around, and think, how did that happen? \u2018Cause, it had been windy earlier in the evening, but, the wind had actually dropped. And, it would have been would have been a hell of a wind gust to bang the door like that. It was only a small door, not a big, heavy door. So um\u2026. I mean, it could have been some kind of freak gust that we didn\u2019t feel or something. But, we thought it was maybe a person \u2013 you know, just playing around, so we looked around, and we couldn\u2019t find anybody. There was nobody about. Nobody showed up on our security cameras. So, it remained a mystery. And, it was pretty unsettling. You know, it was\u2026. It was scary. And, actually where we\u2026.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Once Rob left, \u2018cause, he had to get back home to his wife \u2013 just me and Patrick. We\u2019re actually a bit scared to go back in that building. You know, we had all our stuff in there \u2013 cameras that we\u2019d set up, and all that. But, we actually didn\u2019t want to go back in. So we went, like everywhere else, just to kill the time. And, eventually the security guards came back to lock the place back up. And, they said, oh who let you in that building? You know, you\u2019re not really supposed to be in there. Ok, so we went in there with them! And, we packed our stuff up, we go quick! We exited, real quick! And, left them to lock it up. Nothing was getting us back in there without like four of us! And um, it was kind of funny. But yeah, the security guards, they\u2019ve got all the stories, \u2018cause, they go up to all these places at night. And, they see stuff, and hear stuff, and\u2026. You know, we\u2019ve had pretty interesting stories about that place, from the security guards \u2013 well, you know?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    So, it\u2019s fairly lively, the whole place. And, I think that nurses home in particular. But, you\u2019re not really allowed to go into it anymore. Still, I\u2019d like\u2026. I\u2019d like to get back into there someday, and do a proper investigation. One thing we will not do is, we don\u2019t do the kind of urban exploration thing, of like climbing into places\u2026. Don\u2019t do it! Um, the only time we\u2019ll do an investigation is if it\u2019s completely public land, where anyone can go there. Or, if it\u2019s private land, we only go with proper permission. We won\u2019t trespass\u2026. I think, all the paranormal investigation groups hold to that, um\u2026. So what I\u2019m saying is, I told you about this place. Don\u2019t go and break into it! You know? Yeah, cause um, it\u2026. It\u2019s dangerous \u2013 fire risk. If something goes wrong, you hurt yourself, you fall through a hole in the floor or something \u2013 its just a friggin great disaster that actually brings disrepute on everybody, and then like \u2013 nobodies allowed in, ever again! You know what I mean?<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    I absolutely agree with you! Getting permission is paramount. You never, ever, go onto a place without proper permission. It\u2019s just not done. Yeah, for those reasons, and\u2026.<\/p>\n

    Like a vampire, you have to be invited\u00a0<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah, that\u2019s a good way of putting it \u2013 that\u2019s a good way of looking at it, yeah, yeah, yeah! I can see why that experience would have scared you. It would have scared me too, to be perfectly honest. I certainly wouldn\u2019t have wanted to go back in unless I had burly\u2026. \u00a0Well, strong, burly men around me\u2026.<\/p>\n

    These two big guys showed up, we thought well\u2026. We\u2019ll go in there for a few minutes, and let\u2019s get our stuff and we\u2019re gone man!\u00a0 One thing I would say\u2026. That what I just told you, was probably the single most, unsettling thing that\u2019s ever happened to us on an actual investigation. People think, sometimes because we\u2019re there, like maybe things are going to levitate, and things are going to appear \u2013 like they do in the \u2018Ghost Busters\u2019 movie, but honestly, that doesn\u2019t happen. If things do happen, they\u2019re usually pretty subtle, you know. You get a sense of something, or something happens you can\u2019t quite explain.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    But maybe it could be the building. Or it could be a draft of wind, or something. You know, we haven\u2019t really had like, really scary investigations, where it\u2019s um\u2026. When we have it\u2019s frankly, probably \u2018cause, we were a bit inexperienced, and your imagination gets a bit running away with you\u2026. Three o\u2019clock in the morning, when you really ought to be asleep, and someone says there\u2019s a dark shadow in the corner \u2013 it looks like a man! And, you get the chills, and you, kind of see it as well, you know. It\u2026. It\u2019s that power of suggestion thing.\u00a0 We\u2019re kind of over that now. That doesn\u2019t happen so much. \u2018Cause, we\u2019re used to \u2013 we\u2019re used to it. But, we don\u2019t get affected by that power of suggestion quite as much, as we used to.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    So, one of the things I really liked about your and Jo\u2019s book, was the way that you laid out how you do investigations\u2026. The tools you use. Particularly with the photography\u2026. Things to look for, things to disregard, in an investigation\u2026.<\/p>\n

    With photography\u2026. I mean, most\u2026. Most of what I spend my time doing now \u2013 I get these emails from like, \u00a0all over the world. Photographs, and sometimes videos attached.\u00a0 And, people are asking me, is this paranormal? Can you explain it? This happened. We got this photo\u2026. And, I find that really interesting, and I get a number of these per week, and you know\u2026. I was sitting down between getting home, and doing this \u2013 just going over a couple of emails, and reply\u2026. And, you know, I\u2019m going to say, that because I know how photography works, and I keep trying to update myself with that, as technology changes\u2026. A lot of things in photographs, can be explained in terms of photography. And, they can also be explained in terms of the way we interpret photographs. Like when there are ambiguous things in the photograph, people will see things in there, for various reasons, depending on where they\u2019re coming from \u2013 spiritually, or personally.\u00a0 No, I don\u2019t want to go into detail on the photography stuff, \u2018cause, this is a talky thing, rather than a picture thing.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    But, I\u2019ve talked about photographs a few times in public, and put up slides, and you can sort of see what the stuff is\u2026. And, we can talk about it. But, I tell you, I\u2019ve learned to tread more carefully, because, one \u2013 I\u2019m never absolutely sure, so I never\u2026. Almost never, say this is definitely the case. There are a couple of things\u2026. Honestly, I\u2019ve had so many of them. That, when you see yet another one\u2026. I always look carefully, but sometimes I say \u2013 look, I\u2019m pretty sure with it, it\u2019s this, it\u2019s a lense flair caused by the sun, you can see the sun. You can see the little green orb. That\u2019s\u2026. That\u2019s caused by the sun shining into the lense. Or, something like that. But, mostly I leave it open because, hey\u2026. I wasn\u2019t there, I don\u2019t know all the context of the photo being taken, and what else was happening when it was taken. I can\u2019t see the place, and I can\u2019t be there to look\u2026. Look for myself.\u00a0 So, I just leave it open, and say \u2013 Look, here\u2019s a possible photographic reason for what\u2019s going on here. But, there could be other reasons for it, that are kind of hiding behind the natural explanation.\u00a0 At that point I\u2019d say, it\u2019s very important to think that just because a natural explanation exists. It doesn\u2019t mean that it\u2019s absolutely the only explanation that\u2019s possible. Things in photos can be caused by physics, you know, by the way cameras work.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    But, at another level, it can just be that devices way of pointing at something.\u00a0I\u2026. I don\u2019t really\u2026I\u2019m not really a believer in Ouija boards. But, if you think about how a Ouija board points to stuff\u2026Maybe a photograph can point to things, and maybe the ability of a photograph to point to things, can be manipulated, in much the way that sound \u2013 voices can be recorded on electronic recording devices. A camera is just another device, and it can be manipulated in various ways, is what I am saying.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    I really like the way you explained that. That\u2019s a really good clear explanation\u2026. And, I like the way you think about that too. That to me says heaps about you, and about your integrity as an investigator, actually. That you\u2019re prepared to look at the angles like that. Yeah.<\/p>\n

    When people send a photo \u2013 look, even if I think I\u2019ve seen it a hundred times before, I still have a real good look at it. You know, it\u2019s not \u2013 oh it\u2019s just another of those \u2013 dismissed! No, I open the photo up, and I look at it carefully, and I try to couch my reply in terms of\u2026. Look at\u2026. This is a\u2026. Probably what\u2019s going on. But then, people don\u2019t always tell you everything at the start. So you get this photo, and it says, oh what do you think has happened here? And, It\u2019ll be like a dust orb over someone\u2019s head \u2013 say right? So, I send them an email back, explaining how dust orbs occur. And then they\u2019ll email me back and say; well, that\u2019s all very interesting, but the guy in the photo who\u2019s got a dust orb over his head, died like two hours after the photo was taken. And, that\u2019s the last time we saw him, and he drowned in a river. And, you think, crikey \u2013 I really put my foot in my mouth there. Didn\u2019t I?<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    You know, it\u2019s like this has happened. Several times, and it\u2019s taken several times for me to learn to watch what I say. Because, you can just write something off with \u2013 oh it\u2019s just another dust orb. There\u2019s dust in front of the camera. The flash reflects off it blah-d-blah. A couple of doubts, to explain it. And, then you find out the story. And you think oooafff\u2026. Well, that\u2019s really sad. Maybe it was connected? Maybe it was trying to say something? Or maybe it was just a complete coincidence? I don\u2019t know. But, the point is, I don\u2019t know. And, you\u2019ve just got to be careful, because, we don\u2019t know what the circumstances were, you know?\u00a0 It\u2019s just like if someone comes to you, and they\u2019re really rude. For whatever reason, in real life \u2013 you just don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on in their life, you know? You have no idea. And, if you\u2019re rude back again, it\u2019s not very helpful, \u2018cause, you know they\u2019re having a bad time for a reason. And we don\u2019t\u2026. If they\u2019re a stranger, we don\u2019t know what that reason is.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    The same thing with anything you encounter, when you don\u2019t know the full story. Whether it\u2019s normal, or perhaps paranormal. Or perhaps, from the other side. We don\u2019t have all the information. We don\u2019t exactly know what\u2019s going on.And, I think we just have to tread quite carefully. We might offend the living. We might offend \u2013 you know, those that aren\u2019t living. We\u2019ve got to be\u2026. Like you said at the start, you\u2019ve got to be respectful.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Yeah, yeah. I agree. I really like your attitude James, I think that\u2019s really awesome. Have you\u2026. On the subject of photographs, have you or your team ever caught anything, any photograph that you would\u2026. Hmmm, \u00a0that you couldn\u2019t explain away?<\/p>\n

    Tell you what. Taken a lot of photos, and videos, and things \u2013 and the answer to that is no. And, sometimes it\u2019s just bad luck, \u2018cause, quite often when things are happening \u2013 like that door banging, I was talking about earlier. We just didn\u2019t happen to have a camera pointing at it. You know, we had cameras, and things everywhere else! Except there.\u00a0 And, another time we\u2019d just finished packing up. Putting everything back in it\u2019s cases, and something goes down, and you think \u2013 Well, huh! We missed that. Didn\u2019t we? \u2018Cause, you just\u2026. You haven\u2019t got the right thing pointing in the right direction, at the right time. And uh, we haven\u2019t been lucky enough to sort of\u2026. Like if a door\u2019s banged, or something else has happened. Or, some strange noise\u2026. We just haven\u2019t been lucky enough to kind of catch it. We\u2019ve caught the odd sound. But, nothing really tangible.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Oh! Having said that. Now just a minute\u2026.It\u2019s not in the book, but subsequently we did an investigation in the \u2013 what was then, the Wellington Museum of City and Sea. Now called Wellington Museum. And, it has a nautical kind of theme overall, with Wellington being a port.\u00a0 We were in the board room, and the area just outside the board room. And, we did an EVP session, and Helen did it. And, if anyone in our group can make this stuff happen, it\u2019s kind of her. Um, she\u2019s more tuned than the rest of us. And, we had two recorders. We had two voice recorders, which I had synchronised. So we\u2026. We go out in the, the kind of foyer area of the boardroom, and we do the EVP session with two recorders.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Then we move through into the boardroom, and I left one of the recorders out in the\u2026. Outside the door, and the other one we brought in with us. And Helen\u2019s asking for, you know\u2026. Can you knock on the table? Or not, then make a knocking sound if you\u2026. For yes, whatever it was. And, we can hear this very faint knocking. We\u2019re all in this big boardroom. Big meeting room, and very faint knocking. And, she asked a few questions, and we heard a bit of faint knocking. Thought, that\u2019s really interesting.\u00a0 And, when I got home\u2026. Well, maybe the next day, I listened to the recordings, and the recording we left back in the other room \u2013 the knocking was really clear. So, it wasn\u2019t coming from the room we were in. It was coming from the room we\u2019d just left.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And because, I was able to synchronize the sound of the two recorders, you got Helen asking questions in one room, and knocking in the other room. And, you know, I transcribed it. I wrote it all out, and I put x\u2019s for knocks, and\u2026. Frankly, it looked pretty good. However; there were a few random knocks, that didn\u2019t correspond to any questions. Now, if you ignored those, it looked quite good. You know. Can you knock on the table please?\u00a0 And, a little delay, and you hear a knock. And, if that\u2019s you there, can you do it again please? And, you hear another couple of knocks. Stuff like that. It\u2019s really good. What you really want to happen, but I still don\u2019t entirely believe it. Like, we hadn\u2019t put it online. I\u2019ve talked about it at a couple of public talks, and I\u2019ve played the recording \u2013 you know, to the audience. But, I hadn\u2019t put it online, \u2018cause, can\u2019t really verify it.\u00a0 And, I wanna repeat it. I wanna go back there, and try it again.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    I have been back there one time since, with another group. And, I hung around in the area where we recorded the knocking, while they were doing a session in the next room. And, didn\u2019t hear anything. I didn\u2019t record anything. Didn\u2019t hear anything. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a building sound. We\u2019ve been there half a dozen times, and we\u2019ve never heard anything like it before.\u00a0 And, there are plenty of sightings in the area of the building that we were in. A number of people have seen a number of things, including a full apparition. One of the staff saw, so, it\u2019s an active area of the building. And, what I really want to do, is go back there, and try it again.\u00a0 Hmmm\u2026 But, I\u2019ve kind of lost my contact at that place, like you know \u2013 you have someone there, that is like letting you in. And, staying after hours, and stuff, and we don\u2019t have that anymore, so\u2026. Plus, all the OSH stuff has come in since then, so they won\u2019t really let us run around in there after hours anymore. So um\u2026<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Never got the opportunity to go back, and try, and repeat it. But, I really would like to, because, if we can get it again \u2013 and, we can be a little bit more certain that, you know, what it is. And, it\u2019s not coming from plumbing, or some other weird thing that we couldn\u2019t\u2026. Then, that would be really good. It\u2019s just on one attempt\u2026. It\u2019s a pretty good recording, but I\u2019m just not quite convinced. But, I\u2019m not going to claim it\u2019s paranormal, because, it might not be.\u00a0<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Right. Oh very cool. So, where do you see you and your investigation team going from here James?<\/p>\n

    We\u2019re trying\u2026. We\u2019re trying to kick it back into life a bit. We\u2019ve got\u2026. We\u2019ve kind of found a few younger people that are interested, \u2018cause, all the original team, we\u2019re all either middle aged, or we\u2019re pushing middle aged. And, people are kind of\u2026. Job\u2019s gone a bit upscale, and you know there\u2019s just less time, less impetus. Found some new people that can hopefully breathe a bit of life back into it, and actually go out and get us into some places. \u2018Cause, I\u2019m just really not very good at that.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah. I have the same issue James, it\u2019s like\u2026. And, it\u2019s really hard when like, everybody has their life outside of the team, and you know\u2026. Things get busy, and finding places is really hard. And, also \u2018cause, New Zealand\u2019s so small. Then, \u00a0having money to go to places is an issue too.<\/p>\n

    We used to drive up country a lot more, but one I don\u2019t have so much time, and two it\u2019s actually pretty expensive, like the petrol isn\u2019t cheap now. Like, we drove up to Patea last\u2026. Two weekends ago. And, I mean, Wellington to Patea is\u2026. Back, it\u2019s frankly about seventy or eighty-dollars worth of petrol. Plus, the rest of it. It\u2019s a three, three and a half hour drive each way, something like that. It\u2019s a really nice drive, and we really enjoyed it. And, I sort of missed doing those kind of road trips. We used to do them, you know, every month or two. We haven\u2019t done one for ages.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Do you find James, that sometimes when you\u2019re walking into a place you\u2019re investigating You can instantly have a feel for \u2013 of the place? Like, you can feel if something feels off. If, something bad happened there. That sort of thing. Have you found that?<\/span><\/p>\n

    You walk in, and you think nah, this\u2026. This is\u2026. This place is wrong\u2026. There\u2019s something bad in here. Something\u2019s happened. And you might find that someone\u2019s committed suicide, or something, in that room\u2026. Something left over from it! I don\u2019t always trust my own personal feelings, \u2018cause, they can be affected by how your day\u2019s been going\u2026. but<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Oh correct, correct<\/p>\n

    You know, what we do is\u2026. We try not to set up too many expectations. Right?\u00a0 So, if we go to a place\u2026. I mean I might know what has been reported, and I might know some of the history, and someone else in the group might know. But, we make sure we\u2019ve got one or two people going in cold. And, we just\u2026. I\u2019ll just say to them \u2013 look, you two just go around the building, and just spend some time, you know, and just come back, and say if you notice, or feel anything. And, you know, these team members will not have any expectation that, you know, there\u2019s a red lady been seen on the stairs or anything like\u2026. They don\u2019t know anything like that. And, I also say \u2013 look, don\u2019t go research this place. You know, don\u2019t start looking online, and finding out the history, because, we just want you to go in \u2013 just neutral. Don\u2019t go around with the people that are there, because, they will take you around, and tell you this or that happened. Just go in and spend half an hour, or an hour getting a feel for the whole place. And, then we\u2019ll talk about it later.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    That\u2019s the best way to do it I reckon. And, I always work like that. Unless my team needs to know, specifically for health, and safety reasons. I won\u2019t tell them.<\/p>\n

    If there\u2019s something dangerous it might be a different story, but, that\u2019s what we do anyway we\u2026. We, at least, you know half the team, or whatever \u2013 will go in with no preconception. So, that if they do notice anything \u00ad\u2013 \u00a0You think, well that\u2019s really interesting, because, that\u2019s the same room that this has been seen \u2013 or that\u2019s been seen. And, we\u2019ll let it go for a while, and we\u2019ll sort of later in the evening\u2026. So we\u2019ll actually \u2013 here\u2019s the information that we have, and here\u2019s the historical information. And, you know, that\u2019s really interesting that you sense that because it lines up with this. Or, it doesn\u2019t. That\u2019s kind of how we come at it. Trying to be fairly objective. Not everybody expecting that a things going to happen. And, that way if it does happen we\u2019re adding something to the story, you know? We\u2019ve got more to bring to it, I guess.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    Yeah, \u00a0that\u2019s really awesome. Your book is a very good read and I DO recommend to listeners that they check it out for themselves! Don\u2019t just take my word for it.<\/p>\n

    We were lucky with the book, because, it came out of\u2026. We got on TV one night, and then this publisher rang me from Random House. I was at work the next day, and he said \u2013 oh we saw you on TV, and we\u2019ve been following you guys for a while \u2013 and, do you want to write a book for us? And, that actually was pretty amazing in itself. So, I\u2019m pretty pleased with the way it went. And, we had the benefit of a professional editor, and you know, design so it was done professionally. And yeah, there were a couple of little typos, and mistakes here, and there. One of them was mine, for writing someone\u2019s name down wrong \u2013 sorry, um\u2026. You know who you are. But, I\u2019m pretty happy with it still. As I said, I don\u2019t\u2026. I haven\u2019t\u2026. Although, I\u2019ve learned more. I haven\u2019t changed my mind. I don\u2019t think that anything we wrote\u2026. I don\u2019t want to pull any of it back, or retract it. I just think \u2013 yeah ok, that was interesting. We know a bit more about that now, but, I still stand by what we wrote at the time. Yeah, which I\u2019m happy with. So, you know\u2026. We don\u2019t know everything, but, we\u2019re just at the bottom of the hill, you know, looking up the slope.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, there\u2019s always more to learn too. But I think the book is great, and I think it gives anybody who\u2019s looking at considering, getting into this area, it gives them a good base of knowledge to work from.<\/p>\n

    Good! Thank you\u00a0 I will say that I didn\u2019t really start the paranormal group \u2018til I was in my forties, and maybe that\u2019s kind of old. But, I think if you\u2019re a young person, in your teens or twenties, that\u2019s cool. But, I wouldn\u2019t have like to\u2026. I mean, I don\u2019t know if there really was paranormal investigation, when I was that age? But, I\u2019m pretty sure I wouldn\u2019t have been mature enough, or stable enough emotionally to do it. Some people are more worldly, and mature than I was at that age.\u00a0 But, I think you need to be pretty, kind of, grounded. And, I think fairly emotionally grounded as well. If, you\u2019re flying off in all directions, it\u2019s not a good thing to get into. Yeah\u2026. In your sort of teens and twenties\u2026. Us middle-class kids, that nothing much ever happened to \u2013 we didn\u2019t grow up very fast, you know? So, I wasn\u2019t mature enough at that age to start to deal with other people\u2019s paranormal experiences. Just couldn\u2019t handle it. I\u2019m not saying somebody else couldn\u2019t. I just\u2026. I just couldn\u2019t myself, at that age.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Right. And, it\u2019s very individual isn\u2019t it? But, as a rule of thumb, most people in their twenties are just too busy focused on other things\u2026<\/p>\n

    Yeah, they don\u2019t pull themselves away from their phones for long enough.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    That\u2019s true enough\u2026<\/p>\n

    You\u2019ve got to be in the moment! You know, you\u2019ve got to be in the world, and aware. You can\u2019t be too distracted. You know, you\u2019ve got to be open and engaged with what is around you.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Absolutely. Because, when you\u2019re doing an investigation you have to have all your senses available.<\/p>\n

    Yeah, absolutely!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

    And, also for me \u2013 I can\u2019t speak for you, but for me \u2013 I have to be aware of what my body is feeling at any given time as well. So also, so I can keep an eye on my team members, and make sure they\u2019re ok too.<\/p>\n

    Yeah, that\u2019s really important. \u2018Cause, it\u2019s all\u2026. I mean, your body, and your mind are already\u2026. They\u2019re all really one thing, aren\u2019t they?\u00a0 If you\u2019re not feeling good, or you\u2019re too tired, or you\u2019re unwell \u2013 just leave it \u2018til another day \u2013 you know?<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

    Yes, absolutely! Well look, I think we might call it a close here, because, I\u2019m aware you\u2019ve had a really long day, and it\u2019s getting late. I\u2019ve really enjoyed our conversation James. Well James, thank you so very much for joining us for this episode, I appreciate your time immensely. It\u2019s been awesome!<\/p>\n

    I enjoyed the talk, um Marianne. Thank you very much. It\u2019s been a pleasure!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>

    <\/div><\/div>

    This episode we\u2019ve talked with James, about his book Spooked: Exploring the paranormal in New Zealand<\/a> , which is available from Amazon. We\u2019ve discussed how he got into the field of paranormal research and investigation. James has shared some of his experiences with us tonight, and this has hopefully given all of you a glimpse into the world of paranormal investigations \u2013 at least a tiny weeny bit, anyway.<\/p>\n

    If any of you have any questions for James, or myself, comments that you would like to make, or experiences, that you might like to share \u2013 with myself, and my audience. Then please don\u2019t hesitate to email me at:<\/em> shadowlands@myyahoo.com<\/a><\/p>\n

    Or, if you are a member of Anchor at Anchor.fm<\/a>, then you can leave me a voice message via their platform \u2013 which I could include in an upcoming episode.<\/p>\n

    If you enjoyed this episode, then please leave a positive rating and a written review on your chosen podcasting platform. Who knows? You may hear you review read out at the end of one of these episodes, like this one from the Podbean<\/a> platform, from cmr5fs<\/p>\n

    \n

    \u201cEssential listening for those interested in the paranormal. Professionally produced and extremely informative; let Marianne take you on a journey through the Shadowlands! \u201c<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

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    If you don\u2019t have a smart phone, then you can listen to episodes from the podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com<\/a> . For those hearing impaired, there is a full- written transcript of each episode on the website, so you don\u2019t miss out at all.<\/p>\n

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