{"id":1428,"date":"2021-09-30T18:50:15","date_gmt":"2021-09-30T18:50:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.walkingtheshadowlands.com\/?p=1428"},"modified":"2024-11-16T14:15:11","modified_gmt":"2024-11-16T01:15:11","slug":"episode-8-skinwalkers-part-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.walkingtheshadowlands.com\/?p=1428","title":{"rendered":"Episode 8: Skinwalkers – Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"
<\/span><\/div>
<\/div>
<\/div>

Episode 8: Skinwalkers – Part 2
\n<\/strong><\/p><\/h3><\/div>

<\/div><\/div>

Hi everyone, and welcome back to the second part of our episode on Skinwalkers. I first contacted my guest through their postings on Reddit. I\u2019m not going to pronounce their user name, \u2018cause, I can\u2019t \u2013 I have tried and failed miserably. I saw their post which I will read out in a second, followed by an experience my guest\u2019s sister had with a Skinwalker. Then we will return to our conversation with my guest. So grab that blanket, and hot drink. Sit back and relax \u2013 if you can! Let\u2019s begin.<\/p>\n

The Beginnings<\/strong><\/h3>\n

In the traditional Navajo (pronounced Na-va-ho) way, Skinwalkers are seen as witches, but they weren\u2019t always seen that way. My late grandmother, who was a medicine woman that practiced the blessings way, told me of the origins of the Skinwalker. Being a Skinwalker wasn\u2019t always seen as a bad thing. In fact, they were seen as people with amazing gifts. They could change into the form of any animal, run vast distances very quickly, mimic people\u2019s voices and some were known to use magic. During colonization, Skinwalkers were used to relay messages between war camps and spy on the enemy without being detected. Having the Skinwalker abilities was a gift.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

When we lost, the good of the community took a back seat and people began to focus on themselves. Instead of sharing what you had, people began to look after their own families, claiming property, and livestock. And there were people that got the short end of the stick. Jealousy is a terrible thing. People became jealous of one another wanted more fortunate people to lose what they had. They looked to Skinwalkers who had other-worldly powers to do their bidding.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Now being a Skinwalker is not a gift. You condemn yourself to a life of unhappiness and anger. In order to become a Skinwalker, you must sacrifice someone that you love very much. This shows that you are indeed committed to depravity. The interesting thing is that you could have met a Skinwalker and not even know it. They are people like you or me, that have chosen a path in which they will hurt others.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Navajos want to separate themselves from death of any kind. We burn clothing and personal items of deceased relatives and it is very taboo to keep anything that belongs to the dead. Keeping such items can make a person sick or suffer horrible events in their life. However, Skinwalkers surround themselves with death. Skinwalkers have been known to grave rob and search through people\u2019s garbage. They use bones and hair from the dead and victims personal items to create \u201cbundles.\u201d They place these bundles near a person\u2019s home and bad luck will fall upon the person.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The reason I bring this up, in my upcoming stories I\u2019ll start addressing the bundles and retelling Skinwalking stories from my immediate family and myself.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The Sisters Experience<\/strong><\/h4>\n

My oldest sister marches to the beat of her own drum and this story is about her. In her younger days, my sister was very much interested in the rodeo scene. My family actually has a pretty impressive legacy when it comes to the sport. My sisters didn\u2019t compete but had plenty of friends and family that they would go and watch. My two sisters would travel around the southwest following the rodeo circuit. The cowboy lifestyle isn\u2019t always glamorous. It can be filled with alcoholism, drugs, and depression. Unfortunately, this took hold of my sister and she got in trouble with the law.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

My sister was looking at jail time and the family was very concerned about what might happen to her. This was very out of the ordinary for her. My mother went to a local medicine man and they talked about next steps. They decided to have a ceremony for my oldest sister. A few days passed, and it was time for the ceremony. The medicine man and his wife showed up a little past dusk. They came into our house and we served them the food we had prepared. Everyone chatted for it bit and when we finished eating and cleaned up, it was time to start. Everyone sat down in the living room in a large circle. The medicine man sat on the far West side of the room. My oldest sister sat to his left. In the middle of the circle was a large pile of sand that was smoothed out on the top. My uncles got hot coals from the fire and placed them on the sand.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The medicine man prayed in Navajo and sang blessing songs. This went on into the night. At the height of the ceremony, the medicine man turned to my oldest sister and told her that they would have to go outside and pray in the darkness. He told her to not look around as he is singing. He told her to keep her eyes on him. The medicine man, my sister, and my uncle went outside. The medicine man turned around and began singing into the darkness. My sister was watching him sing, trying to keep her focus on only him. Then she heard it. Off in the distance, she heard someone whistle. This made her feel sick to her stomach.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Our elders tell us about our culture\u2019s taboos starting at a young age. One of the biggest things that they stress is to never whistle at night. They tell us only the dead whistle at night. So when my sister heard whistling out in the darkness, fear gripped her heart. She was so scared that tears began to well up in her eyes. The whistling got louder and louder, as if whatever-it-was was moving closer and closer. My uncle was also outside during the prayer. He admits that he was scared too, but he wanted to be there for my sister. What my uncle saw was even more miraculous. He claims that as the medicine man sang, a bundle came from up above. The eagle feathers that the medicine man was holding, opened up like a hand. The bundle gently floated down into the feathers and the feathers closed around the bundle. The medicine man stopped singing and the group went back into the house.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

My sister stumbled in, clearly shaken from the experience. The medicine man could see how my sister was. She asked him what was whistling. He told her that it was a skinwalker and that he was trying to call the bundle back to it. We gathered around to see what was in the bundle. The medicine man opened up what looked to be a leather pouch. Inside of the pouch was a bone about an inch wide and three inches long. Upon closer inspection, the bone was hallowed out and more items were shoved inside of the bone held in place with twigs and dirt. He dissected the bone to find hair and pieces of a shirt both belonging to my sister. And a very tiny drawing of a woman behind bars.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Whatever was calling out to this bundle had very ill intentions for my sister. Fortunately, after the ceremony, all of my sister\u2019s charges were dismissed. I asked my sister what they did with the bundle and she said that she wasn\u2019t really sure. She says that she vividly remembers being very scared when they were outside singing. My sister controls her emotions very well and so I can\u2019t even begin to fathom how scared she must\u2019ve felt in that moment. Personally, I find it hard to believe that these events are merely coincidental.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The Interview Continues<\/h3>\n

Marianne:<\/strong> Do you fear for your safety, sharing this information?<\/p>\n

Guest:<\/strong><\/span> I, I\u2026 sometimes! So, in terms of writing my stories online, I\u2019ve had this fascination with the lore and personally, I do believe that they are real.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Right.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve had my own experiences that have made me, you know, believe that there is something out on the reservation that\u2019s kind of insidious and not necessarily in my best interests.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Right. Can you please explain for listeners, why this topic is rarely, if ever discussed?<\/p>\n

Ok, so\u2026 What essentially\u2026 like the \u2013 it\u2019s interesting because it kind of seems in whatever I\u2019ve been told about it, in terms of my personal experiences, that they, because they are a. like a supernatural entity. They are aware of when people are talking about them.\u00a0\u00a0 So when you start talking about them\u2026 You know, the Elders always mention that you know \u2013 don\u2019t talk about them. They start coming around when you talk about them. And so, in terms of like my\u2026 me being anonymous and writing these stories from a place of \u2013 you know, I don\u2019t want anyone to know my identity. It\u2019s because I do believe in them. I know \u2013 I\u2019ve had my own experiences. And I do\u2026 there is a level of\u2026 you know? Of fear.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

In terms of like \u2013 oh I\u2019m writing these stories, I\u2019m putting them out on the internet, and I do have a level of fear. That if my identity is found out, that they\u2019re going to start coming around and I\u2019m going to start experiencing\u2026 essentially, misfortune and travesty in my life, that I\u2019m not up to. And in reality I haven\u2019t \u2013 like, I have a handful of people know that I write these stories. But like, in my immediate family I have not told\u2026 like, I told my sister, and I\u2019ve told my Mother. But every\u2026 anybody else, my Aunts, my Uncles who are some, who are some of the people that I\u2019ve shared their stories\u2026 do not know that I\u2019ve shared these stories.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Right.\u00a0 Well honestly, I think you\u2019re incredibly brave, because I know that culturally, it goes against what I\u2019ve read, of what\u2019s acceptable and not acceptable. So I think for you to share it that\u2019s really a very brave thing. And, I understand the fear\u2026 and it\u2019s really interesting how they didn\u2019t start out that way, but turned that way. That actually makes me feel very sad. Makes me feel very sad, because obviously they were a force for positiveness at the beginning.<\/p>\n

And I think like as \u2013 and you know, this is simply speculation, but I feel like as the generations went on. Like people did start getting jealous at the beginning, and then like it was more of a yin and yang towards the beginning where there was some good, some bad. But generally as the generations went on there was probably such a stigma of oh if you\u2019re a Skin Walker, then you\u2019re bad, instead of, you know\u2026 I do want to give them the benefit of the doubt and so, instead of \u2013 you know, I do want to give them the benefit of doubt, and say like, you know, there is that stigma against you, and you do bad because you\u2019re expected to do bad. And so, in terms of like the medicine women and people that practice the blessing way, they do provide a service and so I think on the opposite end of the spectrum you have the Skin Walkers who people do essentially contract to do their bidding. And essentially you never know, it might\u2026 it may just be their job.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0I\u2019m sure it\u2019s like people come to them wanting\u2026 you know, that are jealous, that use their gifts to essentially do bad on people. And I\u2019m sure that like\u2026 I assume\u2026 I try to connect it to an occupation, so like where medicine women, medicine men do provide blessing services, I\u2019m sure it could just be an occupation for those Skin Walkers who have these gifts, but you know, their occupation is to bring misfortune to others, even if they are not necessarily bad people.\u00a0 As I mentioned before\u2026I don\u2019t know if you know, but, people like your neighbour could be a Skin Walker, and you wouldn\u2019t even know.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

That was going to be my next question to you. You just bet me to it. You don\u2019t know? There\u2019s no way you can tell that a person\u2019s a Skin Walker, male or female?<\/p>\n

No, not at all. And in my previous stories, there was a woman living around the community, and multiple stories where the person is found out to be a skin walker and they lose their lives. And it\u2019s interesting because I think that\u2019s why they\u2026they\u2026 To me, it\u2019s kind of funny the way I think about it. It\u2019s like they have a punch card, they put on their skins and they go out \u2013 you know? Have shenanigans and skins and then come back. I really try not to be disrespectful when choosing my metaphors, but I honestly\u2026 like I can honestly think like, my Grandmother provided those blessing services, and she did receive compensation for her blessing services.\u00a0 And so, I\u2019m wondering if it\u2019s just a day at the office for them. They put on their clothes\u2026they put on their attire, they do their job and when they come home as me or you would come home and try to relax and forget about their day \u2013 you know? I honestly don\u2019t know what\u2026if it\u2019s like that? Or if it\u2019s a little bit deeper and they\u2019re essentially are evil? I do try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Perhaps\u2026perhaps they started out as nice people at one stage, but got corrupted by the power that this ability gives them?<\/p>\n

I, I \u2026 yeah, it could essentially be that they are drunk with power. And, it\u2019s interesting because I\u2019ve also like\u2026 I\u2019ve also heard through multiple things, of like\u2026 if you choose to walk this path, you\u2019re essentially shortening your life. And so, I guess they do try to get the best of what they have right now. And essentially, they live this half life and I don\u2019t necessarily know if they\u2019re happy or not, but I, I\u2026 it\u2019s a shame that there are people out there, if they do have this gift \u2013 or curse, whatever it may be, that are living their lives, with this stigma of you\u2019re evil, you\u2019re evil, and that\u2019s all we know about you. And, but see the thing is, if you have multiple experiences, where they are all bad. Your people are going to assume you are a bad person. <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

So unless you know, some random chance of like\u2026 somebody has a good story about these Skin Walkers then, that could change the way the stigma around them, and the taboo \u2013 but from all the stories that \u00a0I\u2019ve heard, and from all the thing\u2019s that I\u2019ve heard it\u2026 I do like to give them the benefit of the doubt. But, in terms of what I\u2019ve heard they are evil in they\u2019re out to hurt them, to hurt people in some way. <\/em><\/span>Like you have\u2026 Like in terms of my job place, there\u2019s a certain person\u2026 You have to be a certain person to be a kindergartener, a kindergarten teacher. I think you have to have a level of hatred, and anger, and you know\u2026 malice in order to follow that lifestyle, because it is such a taboo. It\u2019s such a \u2013 you know, bad thing to be a Skin Walker. So I think they really\u2026 Something is pushing them so hard to do it, and so I think it does take a special person \u2013 a special kind of evil inside of their body or soul, that makes them want to follow that path.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I agree.<\/p>\n

Yeah, and I honestly think, it probably wasn\u2019t always that way. But, I think now it is. I do like to see both sides. I like to see, maybe it\u2019s just their job and that\u2019s what they do, but I also think that based on my experiences and my family\u2019s experiences, I do fear and keep myself anonymous for a reason.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Yeah, yeah \u2013 and that\u2019s fair enough, because these people who chose to become Skin Walkers, they know what they are doing. They know the choices that they are making and obviously, they enjoy it. Or they wouldn\u2019t choose that path to begin with. You mentioned before, if their identity is found then they will die. Maybe you would like to expand on that a little bit?<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not necessarily sure of what exactly happens. But I know\u2026 I\u2019ve found out that like, if they\u2019re essentially found out, if somebody recognizes them, then they have essentially a very tragic, odd death! Not necessarily that they take their own lives or anything like that, because they are found out, but I have heard instances where somebody was recognised in kind of an odd way. So something that, you know \u2013 something, I\u2019ve heard in terms of somebody being recognised was\u2026. My cousin was at home and they lived out \u2013 outside of Gallop, which has a pretty dense forest. And he was at home, and they lived out \u2013 they have a rural community. It\u2019s way out there, and so for him to have somebody out in the wilderness, standing there, is very\u2026like, very very odd! And so his experience was, he was at home, he was outside. It was starting to get dark. And he looked up into the tree line, and he saw someone sitting in the tree! He\u2019s like oh my gosh, who\u2019s that? And he like\u2026 my cousin is very like scientific. He\u2019s a skeptic, he doesn\u2019t think anything. He\u2019s a traditionalist, very level-headed \u2013 walks up to the tree and sees a man he knows from the community in that tree<\/span>.<\/em><\/p>\n

And he calls him out by name, and the man doesn\u2019t\u2026the man acts very strangely. He crawls out of the tree and then just walks back into the forest. And my cousin was like, it was super weird. I don\u2019t know what he was doing? And when he told his mother, who does believe in the traditional Navajo stuff, she was; oh no, that\u2019s not good. What, what you experienced wasn\u2019t good. And she was like did you\u2026? What happened? She\u2019s like\u2026 he\u2019s like, no! I saw him in the tree, and I was yelling his name at him. And he crawled out of the tree and just walked away, and he wasn\u2019t\u2026 There was some speculation that he was a Skin Walker, because people around the community were mentioning it. But my cousin saw him, recognized him, called him by name, and that gentleman \u2013 A few days\u2026 several days later, was found face down in like a puddle. Like he was sober, he didn\u2019t have any alcohol in his system. He was face down in a puddle that was maybe three inches deep. And no\u2026 it seemed like he just fell asleep on the ground and drowned in the puddle. <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

It was a really tragic way to die. But, there was speculation that he was a Skin Walker, he was caught \u2013 you know my cousin saw him. Out like, doing what he wasn\u2019t supposed to be doing, and essentially, he died because of that. And you know, that\u2019s my experience, my story, but I\u2019ve also heard of other people seeing them. You recognise who it is, yell at them and tell them you know who they are, and essentially they, they\u2019ve lost their anonymity. And, they can\u2019t go out and bad things anymore, and so I\u2019m not sure if they end their lives or if you know \u2013 whatever, whatever power they have over\u2026 whatever power they have is drained \u2013 I\u2019m not necessarily sure, but they do\u2026they do meet their end when somebody recognises them and calls them out.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

For your cousin \u2013 After seeing that and hearing about this man\u2019s death, did this alter his skepticism?<\/p>\n

No. I don\u2019t think so. I think they did keep it under wraps, in terms of like, what happened. But I do have cousins who do have\u2026 are very, very well educated, you know. Have Master\u2019s degrees, have very well paying jobs, that have had their own experiences. And will full out tell me that they don\u2019t want to talk about it.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

One of the first experiences I had was um\u2026 So I lived outside of Gallop \u2013 a couple of miles outside of Gallop. And I\u2026 we have\u2026 we don\u2019t have paved roads, and so amongst our family members, we would drive on these dirt roads. And one of the first experiences I had was, I was in the vehicle with my mother. And we\u2019re driving home on this dirt road. And the road is about\u2026 because you\u2026 we drove on the road for a while. The indentions in the land were not too deep, but pretty deep. And the width of the road was maybe, like maybe seven \u2013 six or seven feet.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

What I experienced from that night was\u2026 We were driving home, and something very long\u2026like I can \u2013 the vision that I had in my head of it was very, very odd. It was a very dark figure. And it\u2026the length of its body covered the entire road. It was very thin, very, very thin. Its torso was maybe like maybe\u2026 like I imagine, a thin, very thin man. He was, it was, all black. It had very long limbs and it walked across the road at such a speed that I can\u2019t, I can\u2019t fathom how something could run across the road so quickly. And it wasn\u2019t off in the distance. It was right up against like\u2026 if we were going even a little bit faster we would have hit it with the vehicle.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

And it goes across the road and it makes eye contact with me and my Mother, and all I can remember is, it\u2019s a very distinctive eyes. Like I couldn\u2019t see the outline of its face, I couldn\u2019t see anything about its face, just its very, vividly white eyes. \u00a0And it wasn\u2019t like the pupils were not white. I can like\u2026 When you shine a flashlight, like at your cat or dog in the dark, and you have that reflective shine back? That\u2019s what I saw in that creature\u2019s eyes as it passed the road, and you know I saw it. My Mom stopped. We looked at each other\u2026 And they talk about when you experience Skin Walkers, you don\u2019t \u2013 you\u2019re not supposed to get scared, cause that\u2019s what they want you to do.\u00a0 They want you to get frightened.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

So my Mom\u2026 we had a pick up and we drove up on the side of the little road, and we shine the headlights towards the ditch. And we could see whatever it was, peeking back. Which like, if it was a coyote, that almost got hit by a vehicle, I doubt that it would be standing there, looking back at us. And, I remembered that and being like that\u2019s weird\u2026 My memory of that, was not of fear but generally just thinking well that\u2019s weird! What did we just see? And very, very curious. But the experience that\u2026 That\u2019s the end of that first experience.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The second experience was the one that like\u2026 I don\u2019t walk alone at night. I don\u2019t like\u2026 the second experience that I\u2019m going to share, is the experience that like made me fearful of being alone out on the reservation, in the dark<\/span>.<\/em><\/p>\n

Night Encounter Near Zenith Arizona<\/h4>\n

True story, glad to get this off my chest\u2026Summer of 2013 I\u2019m driving a packed Uhaul through a remote section of Navajo County with my twenty-eight-year-old daughter following in her car. Middle of the night, pitch black and the only radio station I could get was KTNN (The Navajo Nation.) The DJ had been playing old school country but switched it up and suddenly the cab of the truck was filled with the other-worldly sounds of the Bear Creek Singers. We had just passed the turnoff to the ghost town of Zeniff \u2013 nobody lives out there\u2026it\u2019s just devoid of life\u2026all I could see was the road illuminated by the headlights and that insane music filling my mind we\u2019re doing about 70 and suddenly he was right in front of me.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The next couple seconds goes like this: there, illuminated in the headlights is a figure on all fours \u201cwalking\u201d across the highway directly in front of my speeding truck. In place of arms and legs this creature had four long \u201csticks\u201d and the body was draped in a colourful Navajo-style blanket. No head \u2013 just those sticks moving back and forth slowly propelling him across the road in the middle of the night. I swerved the truck and just missed him \u2013 looked in the rear views and saw him in my approaching daughter\u2019s headlights! Then watched her car make the same last-second manoeuvre to avoid running him over.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I was stunned and just kept driving reassured that she was still behind me \u2013 30 minutes later we pulled up to her new digs in Snowflake, Arizona, and her first words to me were \u201cWhat the fuck was that??\u201d For the record she is LDS and (almost) never swears. Since that night I myself have moved to Snowflake and driven that same lonely stretch of the 277 fairly often at night but never while listening to KTNN for fear of creating conditions that would result in a repeat of the incident.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I enquired with my native friends up here and the only advice was \u201cdon\u2019t tell that story anymore.\u201d So I still think gods, superstitions, and everything else is BS but will go to my grave believing Native culture holds powerful secrets the rest of us don\u2019t understand. Skin Walkers are real \u2013 and apparently they like to mess with ignorant whites like me. Our Native friends won\u2019t discuss it with us and nobody believes me except my kid.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Dogman Experience<\/strong><\/h4>\n

So, I had kind of grown up a little bit and we\u2026 Again, like I said we live in a rural area, and there\u2019s no street lights. When you go outside it\u2019s essentially complete darkness, unless it\u2019s a full moon night. It\u2019s funny because my Uncle had internet, and I didn\u2019t have internet at my house. And so, I would walk over to my Uncles, who lived about a fourth of a mile away from my house. I would walk over, spend time on the internet and I would walk home. The walk home in the dark, to my house, by myself. I was never afraid. I didn\u2019t live in the city where people were going to come up and grab me or anything like that.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

So, one of those nights I stayed super late, and it was like ten\u2026eleven, and my Uncle\u2019s like \u2013 you better go home.\u00a0 That\u2019s enough, you better go home.\u00a0 And so, I start walking. I walk a couple of feet and I get on my bike, and I\u2019m like ok, I\u2019m going to ride my bike back to my Mom\u2019s house.\u00a0 So I get on my bike and I start peddling. And I\u2019m peddling down the path, and on the way home we have sheep corral, where we would keep the sheep in. All the sheep are in there. It was night time.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I get to the sheep corral and I happen to glance towards it. And right next to the little shelter that they have, was something sitting. And I looked. I stared at it. I stopped my bike, and I sat there and stared at it! And I swore, I swore it was a dog! And I stared at it, and I stared at it. The moment that like peered\u2026 I\u2019ve never been so scared in my life! Until\u2026 a total disequilibrium, of what I had thought, you know \u2013 what being real\u2026? what? Like what reality?\u00a0 What I had been told came forward, when the dog sitting next to the sheep corral stood up!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

I was so\u2026 I got so scared!\u00a0 Off in the distance I could see my older sister in her vehicle, and her husband, they were talking with my Uncle. I rode my bike back and I was \u2013 you know, so so frightened, and they didn\u2019t understand what I was saying. And I was in tears. I was crying. I was trying to talk and tell them.\u00a0 The funny thing, is like, as adults if a child tells you\u2026 generally, if a child tells you something is supernatural as adults, they write if off \u2013 oh you\u2019ll be fine\u2026you know, you don\u2019t know what you saw is kind of like the response that people\u2026 like adults have given their children when they have experienced something supernatural<\/span>. <\/em><\/p>\n

But the difference with Skin Walkers in my area, is when I told what I saw immediately the adults that were standing outside the home, took it very seriously. Put me in the vehicle \u2013 no.\u00a0 Put me inside the house. They got into the vehicle and they went looking for whatever I saw. So, it not like it\u2026 it validated what I saw, and made me fear it even more. Because I saw something that didn\u2019t make sense, that was so unnatural, so weird. And when I told the adults that were there it wasn\u2019t like, oh don\u2019t worry about it, you\u2019re just seeing things. It was taken with such a level of urgency, and you know, seriousness that whatever I saw was truly seen as a danger, \u2018cause, they went after it!<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Did you need to go to a medicine man and get blessed afterwards?<\/p>\n

No, not after that time\u2026 I have had blessings before, people generally do have blessings after they experience something like that. I\u2019m not sure why I didn\u2019t. Something that happened recently, a couple of years ago from here, like is another experience I have had. This one is not necessarily in terms of Skin Walkers and the transformation stuff. As I mentioned before they are kind of, they\u2019re tied to witchcraft, the bad witchcraft, and I did experience something here at home that I do want to share, that is very much connected to the Skin Walker topic.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

So I was\u2026 I had moved to the city and had been living in the city, we\u2026 I had moved in with my boyfriend, and we had just gotten, just purchased a new home. We had neighbours, we had people around here that are\u2026 We\u2019re pretty spaced out here. We are fortunate enough to live in a home where our neighbours aren\u2019t super close. But they are very, very nice. Very\u2026 they look out for us. <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

This was, I\u2019d say two, three years ago.\u00a0 So, I\u2019m at home and I was finishing my\u2026finishing school. And I have a smaller dog. A smaller dog that\u2019s my companion, and we have a dog door. And one day, it was just like any other day we\u2019d have. I tried to have her go outside and she didn\u2019t want to. She didn\u2019t want to go out of her dog door. And so I was literally what\u2019s wrong, her back hair was raised, she did not<\/span> want to go outside! And so I look into my back yard and I see like a plastic bag, and so I write it off as oh she\u2019s scared of that plastic bag. And, I didn\u2019t investigate it further. I literally was like oh go outside, and I put her out the regular door. I opened the front door and put her outside. I closed the door and immediately she jumps back in through the dog door. She\u2019s like no I do not want to go outside! I was like what!?!<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

I lock the door, and come back into the house and I\u2019m doing things inside the house. And then, a couple of hours later as it starts to get dark, I walk outside. I walk outside and there\u2019s a substance \u2013 it\u2019s \u2013 I don\u2019t know how to describe it. It was thick, it was like brown, it had like\u2026 I would say it was like coffee grinds. Like if somebody had coffee grinds, and put it like in a bowl with water, and mix it up and they sprinkled it all over the outside of my house. Like from the driveway out from the street, all the way to the back of the house, into the back yard, towards the back shed. It was pretty like a distinct thing and I was like \u2013 how did I not notice somebody outside? And it wasn\u2019t just<\/span> like a little trickle of stuff. It was like this person, whoever did it, put a ton of stuff all over the side of my house. It was on the walls. It was on the sidewalk. It was, and it was like this weird substance. I don\u2019t know how to describe it, but I\u2019ll tell you what the Medicine Man said in terms of that.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

So we had the substance all around the outside of my house \u2013you know my boyfriend comes back and I say look! Look at all this stuff! He\u2019s like ewww what is that? And I\u2019m like, I don\u2019t know? He\u2019s like where did that come from? I don\u2019t know. Well you were home all day weren\u2019t you? I literally have no idea what that is, or who put that there, I don\u2019t know. He\u2019s like ok well, I\u2019ll get rid of it eventually.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

And then that night, I was in my room\u2026 and the set up of our home is odd, because our living room\u2026 Generally, your living room is towards the front of your house. Towards the street. Our living room is at the back of the house and our bedroom is towards the front of the house.\u00a0 \u00a0So our set up is a little strange. In the middle of the night, I get up to use the restroom, and as I\u2019m going to bed, I can hear knocking. It\u2019s in the back of the house. Whereas, if somebody wants to knock on your door, they would knock on the front door. The windows in the back door of the house.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

So I get into bed, and I poke my boyfriend and I\u2026 somebodies knocking. He\u2019s like where? and I\u2019m like\u2026 it wasn\u2019t at the back door; it was literally at a back window. \u2018Cause, it didn\u2019t sound like they were knocking on the door, it sounded like they were knocking on a window. I was like, what is that? He was like I don\u2019t know! I\u2019m like, well if they knock again let\u2019s get up and check it out. <\/em><\/span>And so, we lay there for a bit. But then whatever it was changed position to the side of the house, and knocked on the window of the house. Not on the door, just on the side window. So we jump up, turn\u2026 we turn on all the lights, and go looking around. The window, the side window that the \u2013 whatever it is, knocked on, is in the dark path. Not very well light, and I wasn\u2019t brave enough to go walking down that path, to go see what was going on.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

The next day comes and goes. Maybe, three or four days later, I\u2019m driving to work. Somebody in traffic runs a stop sign and hits me head on! Totals my car. I went to the emergency room. They checked to see if my head was ok. I hurt my back. I had to go into physical therapy for a couple of months. It was so odd. Well, after my accident I took the day off and I came home and rested. Then curiosity got the better of me. So I went out to that window, and there was black stuff all over it. I\u2019m so superstitious and I believe so much in the traditions of the Navajo\u2019s that I didn\u2019t touch it! <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

So I called my Mom, and my Mom again does believe in that. Does believe in the traditional Navajo way. So she scheduled a consultation with the Medicine Man, and he told me that whatever came around that night had very ill intentions for me! Was looking for me to get hurt. Looking for me to possibly end my life. Because they put\u2026 He mentioned that the substance they put on the side wall was dirt from like a grave, and it was mixed with some kind of \u2026 He didn\u2019t specify what kind of blood, I just assumed human blood, but I don\u2019t necessarily know if that\u2019s the truth.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

But whatever that substance that\u2026 that person, that thing, whatever \u2013 sprayed along the wall of the garage, the wall of my house, the wall\u2026 the sidewalk, concocted this substance against my house. He\u2019s like do not touch it! Do not touch that stuff they sprayed on your house. He said; you have to have somebody else come out and clean it. Not you. And I told him about the window. He says don\u2019t touch that either! So my boyfriend, my boyfriend is Caucasian, and he \u2013 he was instructed by my family to clean the substance off the walls and the floor outside.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0It was interesting because I was having \u2013 I remember, very vividly, as I was having the blessing ceremony that the door of the Hogan \u2013 which was where we have our ceremonies, was open. And I remember\u2026 They tell you that your focus needs to be in the \u2013 on the voice of the Medicine Man. You need to be paying attention to what he\u2019s saying. Because, generally\u2026 and you know, in one of my stories I mentioned that whatever was going after my sister \u2013 made an appearance that night and was trying to call back, whatever it was, was bothering her. And, my eyes wandered out the Hogan door. And I could see something. I can\u2019t explain what I saw. But something running on the horizon, around the Hogan. \u00a0I just got scared I didn\u2019t see, I , I\u2026 you know I just looked back down and I looked at the Medicine Man. When he finished his prayer, I told him that what I saw. And he said, well, I \u2018m glad you didn\u2019t look at it for too long, \u2018cause, that could have essentially ruined what I just did for you.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Wow. Did he say what it was?<\/p>\n

He said that\u2026 he\u2026 so whatever it was that came to my house \u2013 I\u2019m not sure that it was a Skin Walker, he\u2026 they\u2026 It was implied that whatever came around my house was a Skin Walker. But, he said that the person that contracted that, essentially hired the Skin Walker, was\u2026 Oh, it\u2019s interesting because, they can\u2019t full out give you a name.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Right!<\/p>\n

They described him\u2026 they described a person to me that has not necessarily been kind to me in the past. But I always thought that my interactions with the person was cordial. In that hey, I was always nice to them. I really try not to bring bad things upon myself, by treating others in a bad way, or acting in a way that would make people think less of me. But, apparently this person did not like me. Did not like what was going for me. Was essentially jealous! And was hired \u2013 you know, the people that do not follow the blessing way too have something happen to me, that would essentially end my life. Have me really hurt, have me lose my job, something, some kind of ill will?<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Wow, and it almost succeeded. Once the Medicine Man did this blessing for you, did you have any issues after that?<\/p>\n

I did lose my car. I did have to go to physical therapy, but I find that\u2026 essentially that the misfortune that was happening to me ended, and was sent back at that person!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Goodness me\u2026 no wonder you have\u2026 no wonder you\u2019re sharing your stuff because One: it\u2019s a validation for you and Two: it helps you to come to terms with what you\u2019ve experienced, I imagine.<\/p>\n

Oh absolutely! Ummm.. I feel like it\u2019s kind of interesting because there\u2026 I experience people that don\u2019t necessarily think that my stories are true, and you know, they\u2019re allowed to have their skepticism. But I have my truth. I know what happened to me. I think that my stories provide a validation \u2013 not only for me, but for people who also experience totally horrifying things, misfortune, and I feel like my stories are scary but they hold the truth in them that like \u2013 I hope that somebody sees them and they\u2019re like on my gosh! I\u2019ve seen this too! And just validates that I am not crazy, crazy person.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

I wondered if that was part of the reason why you were sharing it, because reading your story in the Skin Walker subreddit, that thought occurred to me that might be one of the reasons you were sharing it, to help others, because, you can tell the stories on there that are genuine, and the ones that aren\u2019t. they have a distinctly different feel to them.<\/p>\n

Mother\u2019s experience<\/strong><\/h4>\n

So this is when I was an infant and my Dad, he passed when I was younger. He was an electrician so he would get contracted and because the reservation was so small, he would have to go elsewhere in order to work. And so this is around the time when I was like a toddler, and I was at home with my mother. She was home alone with me.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

She said that she was in bed. It was dark and she heard her car door close. Because we live out in the middle of nowhere, that is highly disturbing to hear your car door close when you\u2019re home alone, with a child, and you live in the middle of nowhere. Very, very off putting, and so she\u2026 When our home didn\u2019t have a regular, like open, shut, close door. It had a glass sliding door, for our front door. Now I think about it, I\u2019m mortified by the thought of having a glass sliding door as your front door.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Because, she said that she looked out and she saw something outside. It was inside the cab, digging around, like looking through her things. And she went out to the front \u2013 I\u2019m still in bed. She goes out to the front and looks out that glass sliding door. She sees whatever it is, and whatever it is \u2013 I\u2019m going to shoot it! She goes if it\u2019s someone stealing my stuff, I\u2019m going to shoot them! So she loads the gun\u2026<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

The glass sliding door is super loud when you open it. You can\u2019t like crack it open, it\u2019s as loud as it can be \u2013 so she slides, the sliding glass door open just a little bit, and points the gun out. She says she wasn\u2019t even scared to shoot her own vehicle. She was just like whatever it is, it\u2019s \u2013 this is highly, highly disturbing, whatever it is!<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

She says she\u2019s aiming at it. It notices that she opens the door and it turns its focus towards her. And she says, it started moving \u2013 having like erratic movements. She calls it dancing. She says it looked like it was dancing. And she said, it started to make its way closer and closer to her. She said she started pulling the trigger on the rifle \u2013 and it\u2019s not going off! <\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

And she\u2019s pulling it, and pulling it, and pulling it. Trying to shoot what is essentially now coming up the walkway towards her house, dancing still \u2013 still dancing! I asked her \u2013 well how was it dancing? She said, it literally had its arms above it\u2019s head. But like, it\u2019s arms are above it\u2019s head, but not straight. She said as it would walk, it would contort its arms, and move them in a weird fashion as it took steps towards her. Eventually, it came super close to the door.\u00a0 She said she shut her eyes and began to pray in Navajo, and the gun went off! She said she opened her eyes and it wasn\u2019t there!<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

And she said she lay \u2013 that her legs got just so weak, that she fell down right at the front door, and that the door was\u2026 that the sliding door was still open, the rifle was still halfway out the door! She said she sat there and she just wept, because she was so frightened by her experience that she had, and she\u2019s like\u2026 Her retelling of the story is so genuine, and she gets so shaken and so\u2026 Essentially she like\u2026 I don\u2019t know how to explain it, when she tells the story, it makes her feel uncomfortable.\u00a0<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

Right \u2013 Right, \u2018cause, it brings back all those emotions?<\/p>\n

Yes! So that was you know, one of the stories I\u2019ve heard where she\u2026 Usually the stories I\u2019ve heard we have to have in terms of blessing, like something that blesses the gun or something that blesses the bullet so that you put like Cedar ash on the bullets. They put Cedar ash on the gun, then the gun will work. If they say that\u2026 they even tell us if you\u2019re walking home at night, you need to put ashes on your forehead, ashes on you \u2013 so that whatever is out there doesn\u2019t bother or touch you. And so, she said that \u2013 well, I\u2019ve noticed it\u2019s one of the only times that she, or a person hasn\u2019t had to put some kind of blessing on the weapon, in order for it to work.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

But she did say a prayer though.<\/p>\n

Yes, yes she did.\u00a0 She does mention that she closed her eyes, and began to pray in Navajo. That finally the gun went off and when she opened her eyes, nothing was there. So essentially\u2026 maybe, this is just a thought that I\u2019ve had, that she started to pray in Navajo and whatever it was ran off, which allowed the gun to go off.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Oh good point. That\u2019s probably, a very good reason. Wow that\u2019s really interesting! Your poor mum must have been so terrified. Cause she would have had no way to get out, if this thing was in her car, initially. No escape, and where would she go? And with you in the house, she would have been really scared, I could see that. That\u2019s pretty scary, wow! It sounds like you guys have had some, like your family has had some, very interesting experiences.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m sure that there \u2013 I\u2019m sure in terms of native families, all of them have their own set of Skin Walker stories. But I feel like I am actively putting them out there. And so, it\u2019s kind of interesting because I\u2019m putting myself out there, and I\u2019m hearing people telling me their Skin Walker stories and in response \u2013 people are so scared to tell them. They\u2019re so scared to bring up something horrible that\u2019s happened to them \u2013 and so, I think that\u2019s like where the kind of skepticism comes in. Where like \u2013 oh well, you\u2019re the only one telling these Skin Walker stories. But I think every, single family on that reservation, has had some experience one way or another, of like \u2013 where they have had to have protection \u2013 people walking on the roof. Seeing something running across the road. Seeing something abnormal. And you know, people don\u2019t talk about it, and don\u2019t share those experiences. So I think they just write them off \u2013 \u00a0like ok, maybe I\u2019m crazy \u2013 and I think again that, that\u2019s why I like to share my stories. No you\u2019re not crazy! No your experience is not\u2026. It is abnormal in terms of like \u2013you don\u2019t go and not everybody has these Skin Walker experiences, but my family has experienced these and I am sure there are many families out on the reservation that do.<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

I\u2019m really grateful to you, for taking the time to share what you have with us. That\u2019s really appreciated, Immensely.<\/p>\n

Oh you\u2019re very welcome. It\u2019s good to talk about it and not necessarily get like a dirty look about it. Because sometimes when I \u2013 you know, I\u2019m the weird relative that like, what kind of stories have you heard? And things like that. It does\u2026 people do get put off by my questions, but I see it as getting them out there \u2013 wanting people to understand that there\u2019s a bigger, bigger world out there, in native culture, in\u2026 you can\u2019t just take things at face value,\u2019cause, there\u2019s things and there\u2019s experiences that we cannot fully comprehend<\/span> <\/em><\/p>\n

Correct! Correct!\u00a0 Oh look thank you so very much, I\u2019m really, really grateful<\/p>\n<\/div>

<\/div><\/div>

We have come to the end of our two episodes on the subject of Skinwalkers and have heard experiences from people kind enough to share their stories. We have had a very interesting conversation with my guest and heard their personal experiences as well as one\u2019s that have happened to family. It has been, at least for me, and hopefully for you all, an interesting journey into this part of the shadowlands. If you enjoyed these episodes, then please leave a positive rating and a written review on iTunes. Who knows? You may hear your review read out at the end of an episode. So get writing! And of course, don\u2019t forget to subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or your favourite podcasting platform.<\/p>\n

As with the previous episode our music was called Apache Moon, by Watchwolf. Copyright 2008 \u2013 Licensed under Creative Commons. For more information visit the podcast website www.walkingtheshadowlands.com<\/a><\/p>\n

Don\u2019t forget to tell your friends, tell your family, tell your workmates, about our show. Encourage them to listen and subscribe also. The more the merrier. As always, I would love to hear your experiences or thoughts. You can email me at: shadowlands@myyahoo.com<\/a> And, please consider supporting this show on Patreon.com<\/a>. You can check out the link on our website. Check out our FB page \u2013 like and follow for hints about our next upcoming episode \u2013 Walking the Shadowlands. Thanks for listening.<\/p>\n